Man Charged Under Patriot Act for Laser

news.yahoo.com ^ | 04Jan05

[Las Vegas Dave]

NEWARK, N.J. - Federal authorities Tuesday used the Patriot Act to charge a man with pointing a laser beam at an airplane overhead and temporarily blinding the pilot and co-pilot.

The FBI (news - web sites) acknowledged the incident had no connection to terrorism but called David Banach's actions "foolhardy and negligent."

Banach, 38, of Parsippany admitted to federal agents that he pointed the light beam at a jet and a helicopter over his home near Teterboro Airport last week, authorities said. Initially, he claimed his daughter aimed the device at the helicopter, they said.

He is the first person arrested after a recent rash of reports around the nation of laser beams hitting airplanes.

Banach was charged only in connection with the jet. He was accused of interfering with the operator of a mass transportation vehicle and making false statements to the FBI, and was released on $100,000 bail. He could get up to 25 years in prison and fines of up to $500,000.

[NJ_gent]

"They weren't "snuck" into the Patriot Act."

Funny - how many Congressmen came out and said that the Act dropped on their desks in the middle of the night before the vote bore little resemblence to the one that had been debated? How many pages did the act grow from what had been debated to what was actually voted on? What was it - five or ten times the number of pages? How many have since come out and said they regretted voting for something they didn't have time to read? How many have come out to say they're shocked at some of the stuff that made it into PATRIOT? In any case, putting non-critical stuff into a critical, must-pass bill so that you can avoid having that stuff debated is a slimy tactic that frankly ought to disqualify someone for public office in my opinion. That's a scummy tactic often done with intelligence bills and critical spending bills - things people cannot vote down regardless of what else is tacked on at the last second.

[mrsmith]

Those politicians are mostly lying (yes, I know it's hard to believe politicians lie).

The House had earlier passed a version that would have been aptly titled "The Immigrant and Illegal Immigrant Protection Act", just awful, with probably more 'non-critical stuff' in it.
The final bill was the Senate version- which was about the same as what Sensenbrenner had introduced earlier in the House- with the money-laundering bill's language added.

[NJ_gent]

"Those politicians are mostly lying"

Yes, of course they're all liars. Politicians wrote and amended the bill. They're all honest. Politicians later came out to say that now that they've had a chance to actually read what was passed, they're shocked and appalled at parts of it. They're all liars. Fascinating.

Somehow, I tend to believe Butch Otter's comments on the subject. "This PATRIOT Act that we have been having to deal with for the last 3 years was snuck in at the very last minute." - Congressman C.L. "Butch" Otter (R-ID) 7/8/04 He's been fighting to fix it with amendment and amendment. Don't bother trying to claim he's just another RINO - he's got himself a 94% lifetime rating from the ACU. His criticisms have been joined by dozens of others. Liberals like Coyers and Lee have been joining with conservatives like Barr and Otter regularly to slam the sneaky way PATRIOT was slipped past everyone, as well as some of the nastier provisions of PATRIOT.

Funny you should mention Sensenbrenner. I found his comments on making the sunsetting provisions of PATRIOT permanent both telling and amusing. He said: "That will be done over my dead body". Not exactly a ringing endorsement for at least part of PATRIOT.

[jpsb]

"so how does one charge him under the "Patriot Act", which is meant for terrorism?"

Yup there is that darn slippery slope again.

[NJ_gent]

Ran across this from a Fox news article: "as of this month, 363 communities and counties, including major cities like Dallas, Denver and New York, have passed resolutions protesting or boycotting Patriot Act provisions. Four states — Hawaii, Alaska, Vermont and Maine — have done the same."

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of PATRIOT. When the other 46 states do the same, I wonder where that'll leave the Federal government... I can easily see California, New Jersey, New Hampshire, and Virginia joining these four states. The others will be along shortly.

[NMC EXP]

Trusting and respecting John Ashcroft as I do, I could never disagree with a law that be supported.

You have a major problem with this logic. Even if Ashcroft and his Justice Dept were not inclined to abuse this new power he is (was) temporary.

Four years from now the next AG may make Reno look like a saint by comparison. And the Patriot Act will still be on the books just like RICO.

[NMC EXP]

It's about giving the federal government more power.

Yup. The govt's prime directive is the accumulation of more power.

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
-- Ayn Rand in Atlas Shrugged (1957)

[NMC EXP]

"appear to be intended"

Note that it doesn't call for a clear intention of anything.

I reckon it means "terrorism" is in the eye of the beholder.

[eleni121]

You are right no doubt. I have supported Patriot with the proviso that it be limited to the war and reviewed periodically.

Patriot in the hands of another Reno or worse would be a disaster.

[NJ_gent]

"I have supported Patriot with the proviso that it be limited to the war"

By the DoJ's own admission, PATRIOT is regularly used in money laundering cases, fraud cases, kidnapping cases, and many other crimes that have absolutely nothing to do with the war. My support for PATRIOT ended when I found out what it allowed and what it's being used for. 365 communities and counties, several major cities, and four states would seem to agree with me - each having passed resolutions either condemning parts/all of PATRIOT, or outright refusing to allow local/state government employees to make use of or help others make use of PATRIOT provisions.

[jpsb]

"You are right no doubt. I have supported Patriot with the proviso"

Nothing like having it both ways huh? hahahaha, you are very foolish if you think government will not use every tool it has to consolidate all power unto itself. Too bad we no longer have a Constitution to restrain government.

[eleni121]

"Nothing like having it both ways huh"

In time of war I would rather on the side of more expanded powers of government than not. Yes, I'd rather be a bit less free than dead. I know that is anathema to the shortsighted and pollyannish libertarians and Leftists, but we are fighting a war that will take time to finish. During that time I am willing to give up some certain freedoms in order to win it.

"Too bad we no longer have a Constitution to restrain government."

You are way over the line on that one.

[poindexters brother]

These lasers are commonly used by astronomers for pointing out constellations and stars during astronomy outings. The laser is brighter than the standard cat toy lasers, but it is certainly not 40mW. Here are the typical specs for such green lasers:

Frequence: 532 nm
Output <5mW
Beam Diameter at exit: 2mm
Beam Divergence: 1.2 mrad

How the beam diameter, divergence and power factor out to the brightness of the light that was painting the cockpit of the plane and its ability to inflict harm or exceed the limits allowed by law, I don't know. I'm sure someone in this group can calculate it given the info above.

That being said, while I agree that this guy is stupid and deserves some form of punishment. I view this as one of the inevitable abuses of the Patriot Act that will become more and more common. The Patriot Act was originally sold as something that would be used to go after terrorists but in my opinion it will end up being just like RICO. RICO has become a tool to punish legitimate protesters with unpopular opinions instead a tool to go after the Mafia as it was originally sold.

[eleni121]

The Patriot Act allows investigators to use the tools that were ALREADY available to investigate organized crime and drug trafficking.

Why does anyone except the Left and Bush bashers have a problem with that?

As for the communities which have passed anti Patriot condemning Patriot...there is stupid enough to go around.

I'm sure they are located in heavily BLUE areas and thus I have no use for their "concern" one way or the other.

[jpsb]

"You are way over the line on that one."

Oh I don't think so, Drug Laws, IRS, emanate domain, hate laws, gun laws, etc, etc, etc. I'd say our Constitution is dead as means of constraining government power and ensuring individual liberty, the Patriot Act was the final nail in the coffin. With the Patriot act government no longer needs to even pretend to be obeying the Constitutional limits on search and seizure.

[eleni121]

Drug Laws: Constitutional and hopefully will remain in force even though the ACLU and Soros spends millions to legalize drugs

IRS: Constitutional but hugely regressive. Can be reformed with conservatives in power

emanate domain: Eminent domain - I agree that government is sometimes too aggressive in going after land for the "common good" but not always

hate laws: Horrible and hopefully will not stand in the long run

gun laws: We need some controls on those. Traitorous citizens should not be allowed to buy guns and provide Al qaueda or the KLA or the IRA.

"I'd say our Constitution is dead as means of constraining government power and ensuring individual liberty, the Patriot Act was the final nail in the coffin."

I'd say you are too extreme and too fatalistic.

[NJ_gent]

"Why does anyone except the Left and Bush bashers have a problem with that?"

Because many of us recognize abuses of power when we see them; regardless of good intentions and constant reassurances. The Constitution is what it is, and says what it says. It doesn't roll over and die when it comes to organized crime, drugs, or anything else.

"I'm sure they are located in heavily BLUE areas and thus I have no use for their "concern" one way or the other."

Alaska's a solid red state. It's not just liberals against much of PATIOT. The ACU has challenged parts of it alongside the ACLU. Bob Barr (ACU 98% lifetime rating) has worked against parts of it. Butch Otter (ACU 94% lifetime rating) has worked against many parts of it. At which point will people wake up and realize that maybe, just maybe, there really is something we have a legitimate concern about?

[NJ_gent]

"Yes, I'd rather be a bit less free than dead."

I prefer New Hampshire's state motto: Life Free or Die

[jpsb]

"Drug Laws: Constitutional and hopefully will remain in force even though the ACLU and Soros spends millions to legalize drugs"

Hmmm, seems to me that seizing property without any kind of due process is unconstitutional. But that is become popular and profitable with LE. Lots of examples can be found with a google. I also have a problem with the "no knock" drug laws that allow LE to forcably enter anyones home at anything without warning and often with only probable cause, not a warrent.

Then there are the ever more popular rock blocks for catching all kinds of things. Hard to believe your are living in a free country when you have to pass thru 'show me your papers' rock blocks after a fun day at the beach.

And G*d forbit you can't pay your anual property rent, cause the government will just take the house you are living in any from you.

I could go on and on and on, no my Freeper friend the Constitution is deader then a door nail.

[AndyJackson]

This laser actually temporarily blinded the pilot and copilot? ... It probably did nothing of the sort.

I read an article suggesting that the laser hit the wind-screen. This would "blind" the pilot in the same way glare from headlights on a rainy day "blinds" a driver. Until the glare disappears you cannot see the road ahead - but occular function is not disrupted.

Is the guy an idiot. Yes. But in fact there are state laws already for pointing lasers at things which carry fines of $50-$1000 per incident - not lifetime in prison or some such.

A 5 mW laser at 3000 ft can "blind" no one. This guy's attorney is going to have a good time with the FBI in the end for exaggeration and distortion. Charging this guy under the patriot act is on the order as charging a five-year old with a squirt gun with attempted armed robbery.