Posted on 12/21/2004 7:09:06 AM PST by ZGuy
Former chief Sephardi Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu wrote a few days ago in the journal Mayanei Hayeshua that the foundation stone of the Temple Mount gives strength and ability to whoever possesses it. He offered no elaboration of this remark. But among the Temple Mount movements, a similar understanding has taken hold.
For years, many members of these movements have believed that Israel's enemies draw their strength and their ability to threaten and hurt the Jewish people directly from their control over Judaism's holiest site - from their hold on the Temple Mount.
According to this theory, the very existence of mosques on the ruins of the Temple and the fact that the Temple Mount has been controlled for decades by Muslim religious authorities permanently weakens Israel's ability to cope with threats and pressure, whether domestic or foreign, and at the same time, gives strength to the enemy.
Even Uri Elitzur, the editor of Nekuda, who is not associated with any of the Temple Mount movements, once commented in this vein that religious feeling is a powerful political force, both for Jews and for Muslims, and anyone who ignores it demonstrates not that he does not understand religion, but that he does not understand politics. "To hold the Land of Israel without ownership of the Temple Mount is rather like platonic love," he said.
But despite Muslim control over the mount, which was allowed by Moshe Dayan in 1967, both Elitzur and Rabbi Eliyahu are far from thinking of blowing up the mosques. Even Rabbi Shlomo Goren, who died about 10 years ago, rejected this idea, although in June 1967 he proposed it to GOC Central Command Uzi Narkiss and Air Force Commander Moti Hod. Rabbi Goren eventually concluded that if the mosques were blown up, the Israeli government would just have to solicit donations from world Jewry to rebuild them, and there could be no greater desecration of God's name than this.
But among the extremists in the Temple Mount movements, a different wind is blowing these days. As the evacuation of the Gush Katif settlements draws near, a return to the old beliefs - the ones that Rabbi Yeshua Ben Shushan tried to put into practice 25 years ago, in the framework of the Jewish underground - has become evident. On the eve of the evacuation of the Yamit settlement in Sinai, Ben Shushan, basing himself on kabbalistic sources, concluded that "Muslim control of the Temple Mount is the root of the corruption of the Jewish nation, and this control gives Islam a spiritual wellspring from which its believers draw the strength of their presence in Israel." Ben Shushan and some of his comrades therefore reasoned that removing this "abomination" from the mount by blowing up the mosques would halt the withdrawal from Sinai.
In recent years, this simplistic outlook has penetrated the extreme margins of religious society, particularly the group known as the "Hilltop Youth" and small groups of the newly religious. The worldview of some of these groups is characterized by uncompromising messianism, alongside an anachronism that almost blatanly disconnects them from Israeli society and the state. Some of these young men "dropped out" of mainstream ultra-Orthodox or religious Zionist society because of crime or drug problems.
Another segment of the Hilltop Youth stresses a connection to the land and nature, but its worldview is ultra-Kahanist. In the past, hookups between these two groups have given rise to attempts to attack the Temple Mount. The Lifta Gang, "nature lovers" who lived near the spring at the entrance to Jerusalem, teamed up with a "newly religious" criminal of the Shimon Barda type (January 1984) and almost succeeded in blowing up the mosques on the mount. Uzi Mahsiya Ha'elyon and Yehuda Limai, members of the Lifta Gang who were later acquitted in court, used to compare the two domes of the Temple Mount mosques to two foreskins that had to be removed.
The only people capable of reaching such groups - or groups that are not "kabbalistic," but view blowing up the Temple Mount as an effective means of torpedoing the evacuation of Gush Katif - in order to prevent an attack on the mount and the disaster that the Muslim world would wreak on us in retaliation, are the rabbis of the Temple Mount movements.
Most of these rabbis understand that blowing up the mosques would not only fail to hasten the redemption or prevent territorial withdrawals and settlement evacuations, but would in fact accelerate the withdrawals and evacuations. Most also understand that even though it might have been possible to act differently 37 years ago and establish a significant Jewish presence on the mount, the wall that separates the people of Israel from the mount would only be reinforced by such a mad act, while the state of Israel and its government would pay a much higher price, first and foremost on the Temple Mount, if the mosques were damaged.
There is no point in talking to them about the risks inherent in such an act. But about the guaranteed collapse of their dream, of which a small portion might still be obtainable via a final-status agreement, there is most certainly a point in talking to them.
Christians see contemporary Jews through the prism of The New Testament's John 8:44. It probably is that simple.
John 8:44 says...
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Of course, you are welcome to your opinion.
However, from a Christian point of view, you are incorrect. I have never in my life heard any Christian take such a position...read Paul's letter to the Romans if you want to see how Christians view the Jews.
In John, that statement is meant for anyone who is a follower of Satan, be they Jew or Gentile. Actually, the statement is most applicable to followers of Allah.
True Christians look at observant Jews as the true family of God (the chosen people), and see themselves as very fortunate "red-headed step-children."
Jerusalem is located on a fault line. There was a minor earthquake last year which caused the collapse of a bridge near the Western Wall.
There will be a bigger one when G-D decides. The Muslims themselves are destroying the foundations.
I agree - G-d has His plans, and they won't be stopped or even slowed by human hands (though, of course, Israel and "the JOOOOS" will be blamed when this happens). Perhaps a small, well-placed earthquake or two, and no more Al-Aksa Mosque. Maybe the same event(s) will have the Temple Mount open up and swallow the Dome of the Rock. Mere child's play to He who is the Creator and Master of the universe. Everything in its (or, rather, G-d's) time.
Rather than worrying about the existence of mere physical structures (or the lack of a different physical structure on the same site), we Jews should worry about our own spiritual development. Judaism expresses the thought that we are all flawed, by design, but we can each reduce the number and extent of those flaws by obeying G-d's instructions as set forth in the Torah and the Talmud (the Oral Law that was also passed to Moses at Mt. Sinai), and therefore come closer to G-d. When Jews as a whole have reached a certain (unknowable, but attainable) spiritual level, G-d will reward us by sending the Moshiach (Messiah). This was G-d's promise to us, and since G-d is not an "Indian-giver," it remains His promise. We have but to hold up our end of the bargain, and everything will be put right.
That all being said, I think that it was one of the biggest mistakes in Israeli history - and in Jewish history - for Moshe Dayan to have handed Temple Mount to the Waqf. The symbolism of allowing the holiest site in Judaism to be desecrated by the presence of non-Jews is horribly destructive to Israel and Judaism - it says that the Israeli government, the only one on the planet set up to represent and protect Jews in their homeland, doesn't give a damn about religion. Besides, the Paleos are systematically attempting to erase the physical evidence of a Jewish presence on Temple Mount - this is the reason why the walls are bulging, because of all of the material that has been removed (and which used to support the walls).
Allahu Fubar!
As a Jew who has only a cursory knowledge of Christianity (mostly from friends and from sites like this, for whatever that's worth), this is also my understanding. I wish that many more people, both now and over the last 2,000 years, believed and acted upon the same principle - far less blood would have been spilled.
BTW, the concept of "The Chosen People" is not one of superiority of any kind - and this is one of the most misunderstood concepts in religion. G-d chose Jews to deliver a message to the world through our actions and our way of life, and the Jews at Mt. Sinai accepted the challenge. And make no mistake, it IS a challenge (as is anything of worth). Being a Jew in the traditional sense is not easy; conducting one's self 100% according to the dictates of G-d is actually extremely difficult (if not impossible), and only a few people throughout all of history have come close to doing so. Not even Moses himself was able to attain perfection, as any student of the Bible knows very well. However, perfection is not a requirement of G-d. One must merely improve upon one's self, to make a better person of yourself than you started out as (based on your inclinations, your family history, your upbringing and the society in which you live).
The simple fact is that Judaism provides a place in The World to Come (which you could call Heaven) for ANY non-Jewish person, of whatever faith (or even of no particular faith), who obeys the 7 Noahide laws. That Judaism recognizes that there are righteous people of other faiths is beyond question. It truly is up to each of us - every day, every hour, every minute we have choices to make, choices between the moral and the immoral - and how we choose over the course of a lifetime will determine our ultimate fate.
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Although Post#27 is a very nice thought about the religion of Judaism, as a Christian and a human being I have never witnessed any human being in history that I wanted to follow with the exception of Jesus Christ when he was on earth as a man.
Religion is a wonderful guide to do GOD's work as in Judeo Christian theology and principles as I assume there is goodness in other faiths, but religion IMO does not change a man's heart does not change sinful thoughts and hopelessness.
We are all commanded to do Good Deeds in this lifetime and treat others as we want to be treated but accepting the promises of Jesus fills the void where religion does not.
I will say not everyone may think they need Jesus Christ to find ultimate fullfillness and happiness, but without Jesus I would say billions of people would have a personal void that no religion could fill...
No!!! Leviticus clearly records that the only thing that gives Israel's enemies ability to hurt the Jewish people is the Jews obedience to the Lord.
It's not ownership of the Temple that gives Muslims their strength. Jews are still in disobedience. They have failed to listen to the prophets and recognize that Jesus is the Messiah.
Leviticus lays out conditions for Israel to have peace. If Israel disobeys they will be visited with terror. They will be exiled from the land that God gave them. If they repent they will be restored to that land. If they don't repent, God promised that he wouldn't wipe them out completely for His name's sake and He would eventually restore them.
Zechariah speaks of a time when a restored nation of Israel, finally looks upon "Me whom thow has pierced"
Zechariah 12:10 - And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
>This was the reason for the first century exile for almost 2000 years. God brought them back even though they haven't yet repented.
>Luke 19:44 - And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
He sure filled my void to overflowing!
...and I used to be a bad boy.
Me too! from a female perspective:)
If there were no muslim arabs in Israel there would be no need of any mosques including those on Temple mount.
OK can someone tell me what that big black square thing is that they all gether around? That is very freaky!
Jews just do get it, they have no desire to bring G-d to anyone.
Maybe that is true in the 20th Century, but if it wasn't for the JEWS that followed Jesus we would be a very lost bunch of folks.....
FYI.............ping!
Amen!
The land belongs to Israel and NOT the to the Preterist-Kingdom future RC and Evangelical Amillenialist's proposed anti-christ-kingdom's worldwide EMPIRE?
The land belongs to Israel and is NOT a Preterist-christian-Kingdom colony!
Israel is NOT the Church,....and the Church is NOT Israel!
God's Prophecies to the Israeli People-NATION WILL BE LITERALLY FULFILLED as God PROMISED TO THEM!
(Romans 10:17)
Leviticus clearly records that the only thing that gives Israel's enemies ability to hurt the Jewish people is the Jews dis-obedience to the Lord.
For obedience, God promised Israel peace.
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