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To: ZGuy
"For years, many members of these movements have believed that Israel's enemies draw their strength and their ability to threaten and hurt the Jewish people directly from their control over Judaism's holiest site - from their hold on the Temple Mount."

No!!! Leviticus clearly records that the only thing that gives Israel's enemies ability to hurt the Jewish people is the Jews obedience to the Lord.

It's not ownership of the Temple that gives Muslims their strength. Jews are still in disobedience. They have failed to listen to the prophets and recognize that Jesus is the Messiah.

Leviticus lays out conditions for Israel to have peace. If Israel disobeys they will be visited with terror. They will be exiled from the land that God gave them. If they repent they will be restored to that land. If they don't repent, God promised that he wouldn't wipe them out completely for His name's sake and He would eventually restore them.

Zechariah speaks of a time when a restored nation of Israel, finally looks upon "Me whom thow has pierced"

Zechariah 12:10 - And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

>This was the reason for the first century exile for almost 2000 years. God brought them back even though they haven't yet repented.

>Luke 19:44 - And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

31 posted on 12/21/2004 9:17:38 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN; ZGuy
Correction!!!

Leviticus clearly records that the only thing that gives Israel's enemies ability to hurt the Jewish people is the Jews dis-obedience to the Lord.

For obedience, God promised Israel peace.

40 posted on 12/21/2004 11:04:54 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

"It's not ownership of the Temple that gives Muslims their strength. Jews are still in disobedience. They have failed to listen to the prophets and recognize that Jesus is the Messiah."

Can we please avoid the "my religion/g-d is better than yours" pi$$ing match on Free Republic? You are utterly free to believe what you want, just as I and everyone else are free to do. However, effectively saying "you guys are all suffering as sinners because you don't believe as I do" isn't exactly the way to win friends and influence people - quite to the contrary, you not only don't convince anyone that way, you just tick them off. If you are secure in your own faith, there is no reason to have to beat your chest about it on FR - believe me, G-d knows your heart and your mind.

As for my view, the Bible that G-d gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai in front of the whole Hebrew people mentions nothing about "Jesus" (and that's not really the name of the person you worship as the Messiah, it is an English bastardization of the Greek bastardization of his Jewish name), not even by implication. Further, G-d isn't a liar or an Indian-giver, and if the Covenant that He made with the Jewish people were to somehow or other be broken or superceded (a highly doubtful prospect), it could only be done in front of the whole of the people, in the same manner that it was given. The testimony or beliefs of a few people who lived roughly 2,000 years ago simply don't measure up to G-d's own word in my book.

FYI, the Jewish point of view on Jesus is that he doesn't even qualify as the Jewish Mochiach/Messiah. I won't bore anyone with the details, but if one is interested, the best short explanation that I've ever seen is at: http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/handbook/s_messiah.html
Jesus may be the Christian (and your personal) Messiah, but please don't try to tell Jews who ours is - we've been thinking about this type of thing for about least 1,800 years longer than you guys, and we think that we know our own scripture better than anyone else.

Oh, BTW, the mere mention of the facts and my opinions above are only stated with an eye toward rebutting your words (because the failure to do so would imply that I accept your statement as fact, which I clearly don't do). I am not attempting, in any way, to demean your religion or your own personal faith, so please don't come back and tell me that this is what I did.

Danny, you and everyone else are utterly free to believe what you wish to believe. I harbor you no ill will at all and, in fact, wish you good health, happiness and prosperity. I have not a single problem with you believing that the Jewish people is somehow suffering for not believing in Jesus - but I just don't want to read about it here. Oh, and Merry Christmas - I hope that you and your loved ones have a very happy holiday.


42 posted on 12/21/2004 11:59:23 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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