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To: gbcdoj

You can post citations all day and night. It will make no difference.

Rome has rejected the Faith of two millenia. They maintain the structure and the buildings but these new creations are a new religion. The Church is Truth. Truth, by its nature, cannot change. We face one of two scenarios: prelates, including the Pope, have lost jurisdiction due to material heresy, or the See is vacant.

One thing is for certain. The Holy Spirit is no longer safeguarding the hierarchy from error.


65 posted on 12/20/2004 10:14:58 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

God help me, but I am getting depressed, Deb! Is JP2 TRYING to destroy the Church? All I need now is for pinkspur to jump up and get me banned for something.


71 posted on 12/20/2004 10:58:42 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah; pascendi
One thing is for certain. The Holy Spirit is no longer safeguarding the hierarchy from error.
But since the Church is such by divine will and constitution, such it must uniformly remain to the end of time...

Wherefore, as appears from what has been said, Christ instituted in the Church a Living, authoritative and permanent Magisterium, which by His own power He strengthened, by the Spirit of truth He taught, and by miracles confirmed. He willed and ordered, under the gravest penalties, that its teachings should be received as if they were His own...

God indeed even made the Church a society far more perfect than any other ... no true and perfect human society can be conceived which is not governed by some supreme authority.

... Jesus Christ, therefore, appointed Peter to be that head of the Church; and He also determined that the authority instituted in perpetuity for the salvation of all should be inherited by His successors, in whom the same permanent authority of Peter himself should continue ... Now the proper nature of a foundation is to be a principle of cohesion for the various parts of the building. It must be the necessary condition of stability and strength. Remove it and the whole building falls. It is consequently the office of St. Peter to support the Church, and to guard it in all its strength and indestructible unity. How could he fulfil this office without the power of commanding, forbidding, and judging, which is properly called jurisdiction? It is only by this power of jurisdiction that nations and commonwealths are held together.

... It was necessary that a government of this kind, since it belongs to the constitution and formation of the Church, as its principal element-that is as the principle of unity and the foundation of lasting stability-should in no wise come to an end with St. Peter, but should pass to his successors from one to another.

... just as it is necessary that the authority of Peter should be perpetuated in the Roman Pontiff, so, by the fact that the bishops succeed the Apostles, they inherit their ordinary power, and thus the episcopal order necessarily belongs to the essential constitution of the Church. (Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum)

Your statement essentially asserts that the constitution of the Church has failed, that the Church has been destroyed, that the gates of Hell have prevailed. I don't understand why you said "post citations all day and night. It will make no difference". Don't you attempt to follow the traditional faith? I doubt this sort of doctrine is even what you're getting from SSPX priests.

73 posted on 12/20/2004 11:09:12 PM PST by gbcdoj ("I acknowledge everyone who is united with the See of Peter" - St. Jerome)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
One thing is for certain. The Holy Spirit is no longer safeguarding the hierarchy from error.

Where does this certainty derive from, the Church, "the pillar and foundation of truth," or your infallible judgement?

107 posted on 12/21/2004 5:11:37 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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