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1 posted on 12/18/2004 4:28:02 PM PST by Keyes2000mt
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To: Keyes2000mt

punk kid


2 posted on 12/18/2004 4:34:15 PM PST by Kwilliams
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To: Keyes2000mt

"I've been writing my column for over three years now, and I've been following politics for at least that long."


Don't really have an opinion about his piece--but I'd say those are some pretty meager qualifications...


3 posted on 12/18/2004 4:42:04 PM PST by sam_whiskey (Peace through Strength)
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To: Keyes2000mt
Actually, both Acts and Romans make it pretty clear that the "community" of the church is totally different from whatever happens in the secular world or the state, and that what governs one does not necessarily govern the other. Paul said that the governmental authorities were established by God. That certainly doesn't mean every GOVERNMENT is established by God, only that the concept is, and that we must work to make sure that our governments line up with His principles. Moreover, the "communal" aspects of Acts are always misunderstood: 1) they were VOLUNTARY; 2) the people voluntarily gave to the CHURCH FATHERS, not to the government; 3) at no time, no where, does Paul or anyone else say of this arrangement, "Thus saith the Lord." No, it was a one-time thing (that, apparently, failed, as we see almost immediately that they are having problems taking care of the needs of some in the church).

People are free to engage in any economic and political sturctures they please, the the Word does not sanction theft in the name of the state, nor does it promise that "just any" economic or political arrangements will work.

5 posted on 12/18/2004 4:52:30 PM PST by LS
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To: Keyes2000mt
This article basically endorses a do-nothing, "nothing really matters in this world" attitude toward life. In reality, promoting Christian values in our society IS indeed very important. First of all, we want our leaders making moral decisions based on a tradition of commonly shared faith [ala Bush], rather than based on human derived subjective values [such as, "what do the polls say today" ala Kerry]. In addition, we need to reinforce the values of faith to our children, rather than passively accept an increasingly aggressive active campaign of disrespect to our religion. Aren't our Christian values worth enough to us to fight for? If our children see that we DON'T stand up to evil, will THEY when their time comes?
6 posted on 12/18/2004 4:52:41 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Keyes2000mt
This kid gets it. He really gets it.


7 posted on 12/18/2004 4:55:10 PM PST by rdb3 (Can I join the Pajamahadeen even if I sleep in the nude?)
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To: Keyes2000mt

I have to say that I disagree with Kyle on several points. It gets kinda confusing because he argues rightly that Christians are to be selfless.

However, the selflessness he argues for is not individual selflessness of one person with another. Rather, he seems to advocate a group selflessness where Christians as a group don't fight for what they believe in politically but rather yield to the wills of the other ideologies and beliefs in the community.

The problem with Kyle's viewpoint is that it leaves Christians as moral jellyfish, merely yielding and adjusting to what the culture dictates, so that we may seem to be orderly and not insistent on our own ideas as public policy.

The problem is that this has not been the consistent history of the church. That has rather been that when Christians have moral authority or political capitol, they use it for the cause of righteousness. This goes back to the 4th Century when St. Basil of Caeseria inspired the Roman Emperor Valentian to ban abortion, infanticide, and abandonment of children. By Kyle's standard, St. Basil should not have fought against the exposure walls and lobbied the government. He should have stood silently by and not been so selfish as to demand human life be respected.


8 posted on 12/18/2004 4:57:48 PM PST by Keyes2000mt (http://adamsweb.us/blog Conservative Truth for Idaho)
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To: Keyes2000mt
In the New Testament, we see the majority of teaching addressed to communities.

Incorrect. The majority of the teachings in the New Testament are to the individual, but this writer's thesis is so profound, G-d MUST have supported it.

In Acts, we see a beautiful picture of Christian community fleshed out.

Unfortunately, the writer seems to be unaware that community failed in that it was unsustainable. Contrary to popular belief, every Biblical practice was not ordained by the Almighty. One could make the case that picking a replacement for Judas was premature, because G-d had Paul in mind all along. Similarly, many assume something is amiss when the exuberance of first coming to Jesus cools.

The writer is entitled to his opinion, but he should not believe that opinion is informed by anything more than a superficial familiarity with the Biblical narrative.

11 posted on 12/18/2004 5:15:21 PM PST by papertyger
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To: All
I rather stridently disagree with this person, so I'll address issue by issue.

The prevailing thought isn't, "If we flex the collective muscle of evangelicas, then we can win".  The prevailing thought is, "As a people we either stand up to those who would erase us from society, or we disappear from society."  The anti-Christian group-think being exercised by the anti-religious bigots today, is little different than the precursor actions that took place in 1930s Germany.  Nope, don't for a moment consider the idea that shutting up and being complacent is the route of preservation.  Stand up, scream out, be counted and let the bigots know that they will be challenged and defeated at every turn.

Win what?  Bud, if you have to ask, my tellling you isn't going to impart wisdom.

Yes, what is the proper relationship between Christians and politics?  Could it be that if more Christians were in politics, this nation might be a little better off?  LOL, the corruption, the outright lying to the American public has reached a deafening creshendo, and this person raises the question of what part Christians should play?

Imagine, this person has been following politics for three years now.  In a word, YIKES!  He's a three year old.  I couldn't tell.  Could you?

He writes about Christianity not being compatable with the business community and politics.  My goodness bud, you just chopped off a lot of territory that is not compatible with the Christian life.  I always thought that Christians were supposed to conduct themselves with honor where ever they went.  If this world were full of Christians, who would be our business, community, city, regional, state and national leaders?  Evidently this guy thinks we'd have to do without.

Self-interest is not incompatible with Christianity.  Christ did not expect Christians to submit to destruction, live in poverty or shirk the work ethic and responsibility.  You treat others with dignity and develop win/win relationships.  This writer sounds as if they are 22 years old, and haven't a clue what adult life is all about yet.  Judging seems to come naturally though.

Living the selfless life does not mean you take it on the chin 24/365.  Trying to treat others as you would like to be treated is the real Christian ethic.  Not crushing your business competitors, but competing with them is just fine.  It's not anti-Christian to run a successful business while others go under.  Who would support the church financially if not for successful church members?

This writer puts down the desire for political influence.  Frankly I think people of good moral fiber should be the ones in positions of power.  They more than anyone else should understand the pitfalls and guarantee all citizens a fair shake.  Does this writer think the moral depraved will do better?  Should we allow the morally depraved seek office and win, because politics and religion don't mix?  What a ding-bat...

No, our nation won't change when enough people want it to.  Not enough people will want change, if good decent men abandon the public arena to the morally vacant.

And that's why this writer should find another profession, and let someone with at least a minimal understanding of morals step up to the plate.

13 posted on 12/18/2004 5:40:46 PM PST by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservat)
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To: Keyes2000mt

Evangelicals are one step behind Muslims.


18 posted on 12/18/2004 5:59:10 PM PST by MonroeDNA (“I feel more comfortable with Soviet intellectuals than I do with American businessmen.” --Soros)
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To: Keyes2000mt
Traditionally, in America we value individualism – we have a capitalist market and a constitutional republic. And, that's probably as moral a system we could arrive at. However, this Western idea of individualism when grafted onto Christian spirituality creates a problem, because it immediately turns into a power struggle.

He may figure it out one day...

Traditionally we are individuals that value, support and build families -the basis for strong moral communities...

20 posted on 12/18/2004 6:04:16 PM PST by DBeers
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To: Keyes2000mt

An update on the Mustang school district. Their voters voted down a bond issue the school needed and told the school board that their banning of the navitity scene in the 5th grade play was the reason.


21 posted on 12/18/2004 6:04:29 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- GO SOONERS!)
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To: Keyes2000mt
The Christian right wing is sincere, it appears, in its ideals of government and society, but the means by which to accomplish these things requires us to shed a Christ-life selflessness and join the power struggle. Politics is dirty, and even the morality candidates use scare tactics and empty rhetoric.

That is a standard lie of Satan continually used against Christians: that Christianity itself is not out right new birth as real, literal new creations in Jesus Christ and God non-metaphorically living in us doing His will in all things, but that Christianity is merely an ideal model of behavior that the old, non-born again creature must adhere to, and if that ideal model is broken, the "Christian" endangers their soul before God by supposedly having dissappointed or made God angry. Satan offers up an endless supply of such ideal models, all of which of late have this in common: that the ideal model of behavior for the "best Christians" is such that the "best Christians" on the path of full pursuit of any model must necessarily damn his or her soul and forfeit all supposed "riches in Christ" gained through such self-effort in order to get involved in government or law enforcement or the military or the intelligence services in order to kill Christians at his leisure. Every time a pagan tells you something is wrong with your Christianity and that you are supposedly violating and invalidating what-it-means to be a Christian, God has done something through you for His glory and they have been convicted. The writer of that article is at best a free willer, deceived he is still the old creature earning his way to heaven by following a lie sold to him by satan that that earning is instantly jeopardized by participating in government in such a way as to justly rule and have a safe, prosperous, evangelical nation before God.

Proverbs 8:13-18 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength. By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen

24 posted on 12/18/2004 6:06:17 PM PST by telder1
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To: Keyes2000mt

Come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing.
Be not unequally yolked together with unbelievers.
Love Not the world.
Walk not in the council of the ungodly nor sit in the seat of the scornful, nor stand in the way of the sinner.
Give not that which is holy unto dogs.
Cast not your pearls before swine.


40 posted on 12/18/2004 6:25:39 PM PST by Texas Songwriter (p)
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To: Keyes2000mt

In being selfish we are not like Christ? That is true. Can we shed our selfishness? We go where He leads us, in the direction of His will. His lead neither turns nor falters. But our selfish nature burdens us and we deviate. In fact, the false belief that we can shed that nature, as purely as Christ has done, is a belief inspired by selfish pride.


50 posted on 12/18/2004 6:36:32 PM PST by reasonisfaith
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To: Keyes2000mt

One other thing I forgot, and it's probably the most important, the move to Christianize our government is the desire to impact our society through man and not through the message of Chris. We are to a point putting up idols rather than giving all to God and Christ and letting Him guide the events of the world.


87 posted on 12/19/2004 1:33:10 PM PST by joesbucks
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