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1 posted on 12/07/2004 9:02:29 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
It's not a pro-UCC ad. It's an ANTI-NON-UCC ad.
2 posted on 12/07/2004 9:05:07 AM PST by atomicpossum (I am the Cat that walks by himself, and all places are alike to me.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"the power of the right in America to chill and deter free speech."

It seems professors have become incredibly stupid over the years.

3 posted on 12/07/2004 9:05:14 AM PST by johniegrad
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

"United Church of Christ"

Ah yes.......good to see you're not bearing false witness with these commercials.

Oh wait.......you are........never mind.......


4 posted on 12/07/2004 9:06:05 AM PST by TitansAFC (Al Gonzales for SCOTUS? Let's just nominate Arlen Specter.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"Why do the major networks refuse to run an ad by a church that welcomes gays and lesbians?"

Because the basis is a demonstrable lie, perhaps?

5 posted on 12/07/2004 9:06:28 AM PST by jammer
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
A professor then ominously warned about "the power of the right in America to chill and deter free speech."

What utter bulls**t. I've been on the receiving end of far more liberals chilling free speech than anything else... The Left has been, for the past several decades, the number one perptrator of civil rights violations in this nation, and no "professor" can make me believe otherwise.

6 posted on 12/07/2004 9:06:36 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks ('Hate' is just a special kind of Love we give to people who suck.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

The UCC would probably allow anyone to enter their hallowed halls except those churchgoing people with whom they disagree. Rather than showing their own church in a loving light they chose to show other churches in a negative light. Ah, the true sense of brotherhood. Of course with the emphasis on hood rather than brother.


7 posted on 12/07/2004 9:07:36 AM PST by Pharlap
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

"The left-wing United Church of Christ (UCC) put out a press release complaining about how their ad denigrating other churches, which showed bouncers, in front of a church, turning away a gay couple, a Hispanic man, a black woman and a guy in a wheelchair,"

I can't imagine any true church, left-wing or not, turning away any of these people, especially based on race or handicap. That is a blatant straw man.As for the gay man, he's welcome but he'll probably feel uncomfortable after awhile, seeing how homosexuality is viewed as a sin and all...The church is nothing withhout the Bible. How then can it be viewed as bigoted if the Bible is taught in church. Arrrgh.


8 posted on 12/07/2004 9:10:08 AM PST by Ohiomedina (Art is long, life short; judgment difficult, opportunity transient.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
This whole scenario sounds scripted from the DNC, to create a false controversy and further divide the red and blue camps.

In my church, I always duck in the back door to avoid the bouncers out front trying to keep out gays, handicapped, blacks and hispanics. (/sarcasm)

10 posted on 12/07/2004 9:11:52 AM PST by Ciexyz (I use the term Blue Cities, not Blue States. PA is red except for Philly, Pgh & Erie.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
The only thing controversial about this ad is the fact that UCC is explicitly slamming Christians who have different views on sin.

The issue should be why the UCC needs demean other Christian bodies. Nobody cares that the UCC is okay with sexual sins - that's been their stance for decades.
12 posted on 12/07/2004 9:15:53 AM PST by Gingersnap
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Net-net, the ad should not have been banned. By banning such a passive ad that simply states that a church is open (even though I think it is deceptive as the church is more than just open), is a travesty of censorship by the networks.


15 posted on 12/07/2004 9:30:01 AM PST by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

Why doesn't this arrogant and leftist United Church of Christ get over itself? My church is one of the most conservative in the nation and NO ONE IS EVER TURNED AWAY. Indeed, it is against the church's scriptural teachings to do so. Nor do I know of any other church doing such. This is typical of liberals. They accuse the right of thinking we have a "monopoly on morals." Yet they themselves think they have a monopoly on compassion and tolerance. Time to get over yourselves and to break free of the intellectually-stunted world of stereotypes which tells you more conservative Christian denominations turn away people they don't approve of from their congregations. That world exists only in your warped, narrow little minds.


17 posted on 12/07/2004 9:45:06 AM PST by MikeA
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

This ad should not have been banned, even though the message is demonic. Lucifer doesn't hang around in pool halls, bars and strip joints. He doesn't bother with the riff-raff. He goes to the top, to leadership, and corrupts them. What better way to destroy the church than to corrupt it's leadership and it's message? Satan does not deny God, he corrupts God's message. Satan is not a being with horns and a pitchfork. He wears a suit or robes, stands in front of a congregation and denies his own existance. He is the king of lies.

Show the ad. For those in the UCC church that have ears to hear it may wake them up to the ugly reality of their leadership's message and teaching.


18 posted on 12/07/2004 9:46:29 AM PST by Freakazoid
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I'm trying to figure out how the "Christian Right" is the villain in this story when it was the three networks that denied the free speech.

I know the ad is a bunch of lies, but no one influenced the networks because the ads never ran.

This "controversy" seems all too convenient.


20 posted on 12/07/2004 9:57:37 AM PST by almcbean
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I wonder what the UCC response would be if someone put an "ad" on the 'net showing UCC bouncers high-fiving and backslapping pedophiles, passing a doobie, bowing to Fidel Castro and Kim Jung Il as they are passed thru, ..., while turning away people in military uniform, anyone wearing a Republican or "W in 04" button, a hunter/sportsman, ...?


21 posted on 12/07/2004 9:57:53 AM PST by optimistically_conservative (The soldier, be he friend or foe, is charged with the protection of the weak and the unarmed.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
"Turning away gays, a Latino, a black girl and a handicapped man." A contention of the article is Jesus never turned anyone away.

There are two levels of Christ never turning one away that need to be considered in scripture the first would be those who were with him personally or disciples of Jesus

Jesus did not appeal to everyone to be his disciple.

Matthew 8:21-22 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Luke 14 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14 33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Mark 2 15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 23:13-35 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

And even with far greater import Jesus said that not all, not most, those who shall desire to enter the kingdom of heaven and shall not.

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 21:28-45 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

There are many other scriptures in the gospels that point Christ and Heaven not being all inclussive as all the liberals would imply -- now the liberals are a religious folk in theirown manner. All these news commentators are also -- these are some of the modern pharisees they poke at christ they poke at God they poke at beleivers that are less than themselves and they use an unrightous meaurung stick of their traditions and the teachings that approve their personal standards. These poeple have stood aside watching millions of babies being aborted, they have allowed christians to be massacred around the world with no cry they have let people who were in freedom be taken over by muslim and communist governments and not lifted a single finger to save any one. They rejoice in sin they rejoice in iniquity they rejoice in the defeat of Christ and the church -- these people are by definition pharisees.

25 posted on 12/07/2004 10:46:56 AM PST by Rocketman
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I've seen the ad. It reads to me like "We're the UCC, the non-racist church."


26 posted on 12/07/2004 10:48:34 AM PST by Petronski (WARNING: Persons denying the existence of Robots may be Robots themselves.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

I've seen the ad. It reads to me like "We're the UCC, the non-racist church."

Which begs the question...where are all these 'racist' churches?



As for the UCC, I guess they've taken the white out to those passages in the Old AND New Testament condemning as sinful homosexual acts. Not condemning queers, but condemning queer acts.

So, where are the similar passages condemning use of a wheelchair or condemning being black or hispanic (he asks rhetorically)?


27 posted on 12/07/2004 10:52:31 AM PST by Petronski (WARNING: Persons denying the existence of Robots may be Robots themselves.)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
The article repeats it's self. It is poorly written.

Aside from that, FOX accepted the commercial. It's pretty clear that the reason the other networks rejected the ad is because it is religious, not because it is controversial.
28 posted on 12/07/2004 10:58:04 AM PST by monday
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

To liberals, people of faith might as well live in another country. After the election, its amusing to watch ABC struggle to understand why people who embrace traditional values reject the Left's social permissiveness. As The Gipper used to be fond of remarking, "there they go again!" Peter Jennings and Co. don't get it and for the record, neither do the Unitarians.


31 posted on 12/07/2004 11:14:19 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
The UCC is almost entirely composed of upper middle class lily white liberals. Most of the mainstream denominations are like that.

If you want to see a truly diverse congregation, you usually have to go to an evangelical church.

32 posted on 12/07/2004 11:14:54 AM PST by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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