Posted on 12/06/2004 12:44:58 PM PST by Lindykim
"Is it morally and theologically acceptable to hope anyone goes to hell? ... One...need not be a conservative Christian to believe in some form of hell for the evil. All one need be is a rational believer in a just God. For if there is a just God, it is inconceivable that those who do evil and those who do good have identical fates. A just God must care about justice, and since there is little justice in this world, there has to be in the next. And belief in the next world is also not confined to Christianity. As the Encyclopedia Judaica ... (edited largely by non-religious Jews) notes in the first sentence under the heading 'Afterlife,' 'Judaism has always believed in an afterlife.' ... Much of humanity has been adversely affected by modern-day terror. The lives of millions -- virtually all Palestinians and Israelis, for example -- have been terribly affected by Arafat. And there are hundreds of thousands of people whose lives have been destroyed or shattered by him. At the same time, other than a few sycophants enriched by some of the billions of dollars he embezzled from the Palestinians, no one has had a better life because Yasser Arafat lived. ... Yasser Arafat single-handedly made nihilistic acts of cruelty routine, even respectable. ... Thanks to him, the Palestinian name is identified among people of goodwill with barbarity just as the German name came to be associated with barbarity as a result of Hitler. ... Just as any decent human being would want good people to be rewarded in whatever existence there is after this life, they would want the cruelest of people to be punished. So, of course, I hope Yasser Arafat is in hell. ... If you think that is hard-hearted, consider the alternative, that one of the most corrupt and cruel human beings of the past half-century is resting in peace. Whoever isn't bothered by that is the one with the hard heart." --Dennis Prager
At the risk of appearing glib: Who's to say some of them didn't?
Perhaps some did before the Khmer murdered them, but that dodges my question. How about a yes or no?
Jesus says, "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven."
The difference is, Jesus claims to be the Gatekeeper.
No pious person would ever hope that any soul goes to hell. OTOH, no faithful person would ever want to circumvent God's justice and mercy. That is one purpose of prayer - to beg God's mercy for others who, if they don't change, will be destined for great suffering after death.
If a person hates God, or disbelieves in His existence and thereby lives in defiance of His will, that person already is in hell. How can a person go to the Kingdom of God when he or she hates God or has no faith? The very nature of the Kingdom of God is the place where God is always tangibly present and all who exist there praise, glorify, and serve Him in eternal happiness.
A God hater would hate it there.
Another point to keep in mind is that a person can go through great changes of heart in a short time (such as near death) but old habits die hard.
If someone has developed a habit throughout their life of prayer and dependence on God, that will naturally happen at death. If a person has developed habits of sinful acts and rebellion against God his whole life, it will be very difficult to pray or remember God's mercy, if he has never done it before, and his heart is covered with the hardness that is the result with such a life.
Moral Absolutes Ping. Very interesting discussion going on - haven't read the whole thread yet (must do my pinging duties) but weigh in.
What is the difference between God's justice and His mercy? All depends on us. Do we beg for His mercy, or deserve His justice? His justice is His mercy. Someone who loves God with his heart and soul sees every circumstance, everything that comes his way, as God's mercy, no matter how difficult.
Let me know if anyone wants on/off this pinglist.
This is true. And it would please the Lord if we pray for our enemies. After all, if the Lord counted OUR every sin, who could stand before Him? God's grace, freely given, has kept believers from a future in Hell.
That said, it's difficult to pray for certain people who have harmed us personally, or like Arafat, have harmed humanity as a whole. Yet, God still wants us to pray for our enemies. This is a COMMAND, not a suggestion.
So here's my answer to the dilemma. I pray for my enemies this way: Lord, I lift up (name) to you. I thank you that you have kept me safe from his/her attempts to harm me. Thank you for your protection, Lord, and I humbly ask that you bring (name) to his/her knees so that he/she won't hurt anyone else. Bring (name) to repentance before you Lord, let (name) see that his/her actions are sinful and hurtful. Let him/her repent and then accept you as Savior. I ask this in Jesus' name, amen.
Yes, but why would you assume the Khmer's victims were irredeemed?
Because Christianity was rare in Cambodia at the time the Khmer murdered 2 million Cambodians.
We believe in a just and merciful God. Overly-literal readings of the Scripture tend to reduce God to something less.
So when scripture says no one shall enter the Kingdom but through Jesus, that isn't true?
Dead Corpse is VERY clever :-).
All enter heaven through Jesus, He provided that path to the Father by dying on the cross.
But not all have known Jesus or the Father here on Earth. Doesn't matter though, they will know them soon enough if the Lord decides that meeting is warranted.
I don't think so. Christian people ought not to be wishing others ill. Jesus commands us to pray even for our enemies.
Mrs. Major went to Hell
Upon a donkey ticket.
She didn't know a Johnson vote
is very, very wicked.
I'll be doggoned!
He did not predestine anyone TO recieve him. Rather, he predestined those who recieve him "...to be conformed to the likeness of His Son...(Romans 8: 29)."
Actually, there was a chapter in one of Buckley's books that talked about his sister. Her kids asked her if a neighbor who voted Democrat (or maybe it was for Carter) would earn eternal damnation and go to hell. The sister said 'yes she would' because she was willingly and knowingly supporting evil. The kids and she (Buckley's sister) made a joke about it and the neighbor overheard it and was quite upset. The sister thought it all was hilarious. I am inclined to agree. I wish I could remember the book - it was an autobiographical one.
and for the benefit of those who don't have the entire Bible memorized the way Duracell does ...
Matthew 7
1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.
[not that I see it as being completely relevant, am posting just for general information]
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%203:16;&version=50;
Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit Eternity Road:
http://www.eternityroad.info
Hushpad said, 'It should be the Christian hope that all be saved. But, ... knowing someone will possibly go to hell by all outward appearances (and feeling that would be justice), is not the same as hoping someone would go to hell.'
Well put, HP.
And as for feeling it would be justice ... I think we can recognize there are some historical figures who probably did go to hell, as listed elsewhere on this thread, Adolf Hitler, & cetera.
The fires of hell ARE being stoked for the arrival of Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and other monsters who have tortured, murdered, and massacred countless innocent people. To me, there's a line of demarcation between
1. recognizing / not being sorry that their ilk will die and go to Hell and bear eternal judgment for their sins
and
2. being chronically irritated by my neurotic supervisor who deserves a swift kick in the seat of the pants for spending all day everyday making everyone around her miserable
to the effect that I better not start hoping the common everyday little pests end up in hell too, because at that point I have crossed the line. I must not fail to pray for such.
T-C says, 'One of the hardest things to "internalize" about Christianity, I think, is that *anyone* can be forgiven if he sincerely repents, no matter what he has done.'
I agree. And there may well be some who call on the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ and repent the last few seconds of their life who will then be welcomed into Heaven. And that might come as a surprise to folks who saw how they'd lived their lives!
We don't want to be like the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son, (Luke 15:11-32) who pouted because the father was happier about his younger son's repentance than about the older son's squeaky clean record.
It's never our place to guard the door against sinners coming to real faith and changing their ways. The Blood of Jesus cleanses all who ask for His forgiveness. ALL.
Realistically, though, the power mongers who oppress and or terrorize average folk just might have seared their consciences to the point of no return.
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