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Should The F-22 be cancelled?
26-nov,2004 | Me

Posted on 11/25/2004 6:44:38 PM PST by Haro_546

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To: ExtremeUnction

Its needs a pilot. I know it wont be canceled, but i wanted to know if the money could be better spent on other weapons. The military budget will be tight for the next decade we should spend our money more wisely methinks.


161 posted on 11/25/2004 7:49:12 PM PST by Haro_546 (Christian Zionist)
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To: Haro_546

I think you miss the point of fleet protection. The idea is to engage an enemy as far away from the fleet as possible with as much flexability as possible. All missile systems are very low on flexability, they can't be recalled or rerouted. Nor do they have the range and punch as do aircraft.
Honestly I don't think you know what you are talking about.


162 posted on 11/25/2004 7:49:12 PM PST by em2vn
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To: Haro_546
My point. The F-22 should be canceled.

Wrong. You have no point, only an opinion that you have lamely supported by repeating the same inane comment over and over.

  1. Price = $168M each
  2. Speed w/o afterburners = Mach 1.5
  3. Can outmaneuver or outrun SAMs
  4. stealth technology
  5. advanced avionics information collection systems

163 posted on 11/25/2004 7:49:39 PM PST by jimthewiz (California conservative in a bright red county)
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To: Haro_546

And, if you're old enough, no doubt you were against Pres. Reagan's "Star Wars" program which has now begun to be deployed. You're a really big thinker, Haro, wrong but big.


164 posted on 11/25/2004 7:50:05 PM PST by Chu Gary (USN Intel guy 1967 - 1970)
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To: lawdog

Yes we will. Along with other things in the works.


165 posted on 11/25/2004 7:50:25 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Off to the store for Marlboro reds and Miller High Life. NSDQ)
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To: em2vn
A little money on Raytheon will go along way unlike the F-22 which is not cvn deployable.
166 posted on 11/25/2004 7:50:28 PM PST by Haro_546 (Christian Zionist)
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To: Long Cut

Never questioned what you were talking about or your bona fides....... I was only questioning Haro about his.


167 posted on 11/25/2004 7:50:37 PM PST by deport (I've done a lot things.... seen a lot of things..... Most of which I don't remember.)
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To: GBA

LOL - your parents don't know you are on the PC....

I thought I put a motion on the floor for a ZOT. I don't have a good pic, nor do I know how to post one.

Somebody please!


168 posted on 11/25/2004 7:50:45 PM PST by Cyclone59 (is your glass half full, half empty or a vast misallocation of resources?)
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To: Chu Gary

NO, you are wrong.


169 posted on 11/25/2004 7:51:26 PM PST by Haro_546 (Christian Zionist)
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To: forYourChildrenVote4Bush

By John A. Tirpak, Executive Editor (AFA Journal)
F/A-22 Sweeps Tests; Rising Interdependence; Searching for the Next Transport; Progress in Space ....

Flying Colors for F/A-22

By all accounts, the F/A-22 fighter breezed through four-and-a-half months of exacting tests—its toughest yet. The Raptor demonstrated that it can handily beat today’s best fighters flown by today’s best crews.

The Air Force has classified the results of the F/A-22’s initial operational test and evaluation (IOT&E), conducted at Nellis AFB, Nev., from late April through mid-September. However, USAF officials said nothing in the testing suggests the aircraft won’t perform any way other than brilliantly in real-world combat.

Gen. John P. Jumper, Air Force Chief of Staff, told Inside the Air Force in August that the IOT&E phase was progressing “with fewer lumps and bumps than I ever thought it would.” He added, “We’re very, very pleased with what we’ve seen so far.”


The F/A-22 passes its toughest test. (USAF photo by Ken Hackman)

Air Force officials said the service probably would this fall provide an unclassified synopsis of the test results, after USAF completes all analysis.

The F/A-22 was required to prevail in five broad, live scenarios, each with a number of variations.

In the first, USAF measured the Raptor’s ability to spot, shoot, and destroy an F-16 in a “first look, first kill” test. In the second, two F/A-22s had to destroy a “high-value airborne asset” such as an E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System aircraft defended by four F-15s or F-16s. In the third, two F/A-22s had to protect a B-2 bomber against four F-15s or F-16s. In the fourth, four Raptors had to defend a high-value platform such as an AWACS against eight attacking F-15s or F-16s. In the last, four F/A-22s had to protect four F-117s against eight attacking F-15s or F-16s. Supporting aircraft included the Navy’s EA-6B Prowler airborne jamming aircraft.

Besides winning the engagements, the aircraft had to dodge ground-based air defenses. The Air Force said it flew 188 sorties with six F/A-22s during the evaluation.

The tests were run and “graded” by the Air Force Operational Test and Evaluation Center, headquartered at Kirtland AFB, N.M. The testing looked at not only how effectively the aircraft met its mission but also its reliability, ability to surge, sortie generation rate, mission capable rate, and the number of shots required to destroy an enemy.

Based on the performance of those six F/A-22s, AFOTEC developed models simulating how an entire squadron would fare, and it then measured this performance against requirements. An Air Force spokesman said that the modeling simulates large group flying operations “in sufficient detail to provide accurate estimates of suitability parameters.”

In addition, AFOTEC interviewed pilots and maintainers, adding their views to the quantitative data. AFOTEC ultimately will decide whether the F/A-22 is suitable for Air Force use, the spokesman said.
“AFOTEC will determine if the aircraft met or did not meet the criteria [that Air Combat Command] set forth, using these data,” said the USAF spokesman.

The IOT&E tests did not look at the F/A-22’s ground attack capabilities. That mission element will be tested later, as additional munitions are certified for F/A-22 use. However, the first deployed F/A-22s will have the capability to drop the 1,000-pound version of the Joint Direct Attack Munition. The main ground attack weapon for the F/A-22 is to be the 250-pound Small Diameter Bomb (SDB). Each Raptor would have the capability to drop eight SDBs.

The F/A-22 is slated to achieve initial operational capability by the end of 2005. Air Force officials said they are confident the Raptor will reach that milestone on time, but they cautioned that they might still see some last-minute technical surprises.


170 posted on 11/25/2004 7:51:37 PM PST by gr8bigdude (I have to follow them, I am their leader. -Alexandre-Auguste Ledru-Rollin)
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To: Cyclone59
I second you on your motion.

Anyone with any experience regarding military procurement (or just some common sense) understands that any piece of equipment in production is going to be less advanced than the latest prototypes. However, it takes some time to work the bugs out of the prototypes and get them into production. By then, there are newer and more high-tech prototypes being built, so the cycle continues...
171 posted on 11/25/2004 7:51:40 PM PST by RebelBanker (To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!)
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To: Long Cut

They tried that ONCE it is called the F-111.


172 posted on 11/25/2004 7:51:45 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Off to the store for Marlboro reds and Miller High Life. NSDQ)
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To: forYourChildrenVote4Bush
I always thought that the F-35 was further ahead than the f22.

I worked on the F-22 before I retired in 1991. The F-35 wasn't even on the drawing boards.

173 posted on 11/25/2004 7:52:02 PM PST by jackbill
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To: airborne

How does the JSF compare to the F-22?


174 posted on 11/25/2004 7:52:48 PM PST by Rumierules
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To: jimthewiz
Its higher and will get higher as it all ways does.
I know its an awesome plane, but can air dominance be won in a more cost effective way? I believe so.
175 posted on 11/25/2004 7:53:33 PM PST by Haro_546 (Christian Zionist)
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To: deport

I know. I just wanted to put them out there for all to see, unlike another on this thread.


176 posted on 11/25/2004 7:53:41 PM PST by Long Cut (The Constitution...the NATOPS of America!)
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To: Rumierules

It can't COMPARE, but they COMPLEMENT THE HELL OUT OF ONE ANOTHER.....


177 posted on 11/25/2004 7:54:03 PM PST by Cyclone59 (is your glass half full, half empty or a vast misallocation of resources?)
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To: tuckunderbreak
I've never heard a bad word about the A-6..... well actually, I have. But it came from zip sam sites. Died on their lips.
178 posted on 11/25/2004 7:54:34 PM PST by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
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Comment #179 Removed by Moderator

To: Cyclone59
Motion seconded. How's this for a graphic?????


180 posted on 11/25/2004 7:54:56 PM PST by Long Cut (The Constitution...the NATOPS of America!)
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