Plea from help from Ukraine

Email | 11/23/2004 | Stefan Tanisijczuk

[Leo Carpathian]

Here is an email I received from one of my relatives in Ukraine. Please read.

"After the numerous infringements and violations committed by the Ukrainian state authority during yesterday's presidential election, the revolution in Ukraine is ready to begin. Please help us, the Ukrainians, to guarantee the democracy in our country and the liberated election. Don't sell us to the bandits! President Bush helped Iraq to get rid of the dictatorship. Lend us a hand to prevent it! Stop the new USSR! 50 millions need your help now!

The publicizing of this information and cry for help may save the lives of many innocent patriotic citizens. We believe that the United States of America is the most democratic and authoritative country. We also believe it is ready to help Ukraine keep its independence and stop the autocracy. Please help us save our fatherland! "

Stefan Tanasijczuk

and here is the info about activities in USA:

Dorohi (Dear)! We have SOLID, approved information to pass along.

Tuesday, Nov. 23th, 10am, NYC What: Protest/demonstration at 2 consulates Where: Ukrainian Consulate (240 East 49th Street between 2nd & 3rd Avenues) at 10am followed by a "Putin & Russia Keep Your Hands Off Ukraine Rally" in front of the Russian Mission (136 East 67th Street and/or the Russian Consulate at 9 East 91st Street). Be as orange as you can be, stay as long as you can.

Wednesday, Nov. 24th, 1:30pm – Washington, DC What: protest rally Where: Embassy of Ukraine (3350 M st, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20007 (in Georgetown) then moving to Capitol Hill Car pool, talk to people, charter buses - get there. The permits are obtained; people are already organizing down there.

Several people are leaving either after the protest in nyc in the evening, or early am. for DC, .. like 630 on wednesday morning, leaving any later will be pointless as traffic will be murder. Most of us will then most likely return either on wed night or Thursday morning. If you can give a ride, please volunteer. (contact me at znymka@hotmail.com). There may be buses chartered to go down… that is still in the planning phase.

Make posters, orange is the color, wear it, wave it, post it...

[Solon]

First off, Kruschev is not a Russian name.

Ack! I need a margarita! Make that 2!

Dear Person with only 2 letters & a number as a moniker:

His name ain't Ukrainian.Trust me. He was an ethnic Russian born in Ukraine. Read his autobiography- read his daughter's books.

And what would you be knowing about names now? You won't or cannot spell Victor Yushchenko correctly.

Gotta go - tornado warning up here in central Texas. Ta Ta & Happy Thanksgiving.

[KOZ.]

A. *ole how good to see you came out from under your rock to spew communist propoganda again. i'm sure the soviet union would thank you, if it still existed.

there was plenty of hostility toward ukrainians. and go read a book on ukrainian history if you doubt me, the specifics are well documented. remember....just because you believe a history tale doesnt make it true. quit your spouting, ukraine has a rich history going back over a thousand years. it was never russia.

have a nice day A. *ole.

[eluminate]

several things... one troops from dnepropetrovsk artillery and tank formations are mobilized to transfer to the capital. two why can people in switzerland speak italian and german and french still be called swiss but in ukraine u must speak ukranian and if you speak russian you are automaticly disqualified as a citizen as having equal footing.

One of the senators of the oposition promised an incredible event to occur tomorow. I have no clue what it is.

[A. Pole]

have a nice day A. *ole.

Trying to insult me Mr. Galichanin? He, he.

Prawda w oczy kole.

[KOZ.]

Prawda w oczy kole.

i guess you would know.

yolop.

[KOZ.]

oppression has been coming from communist russia for far too long. forcing the ukrainian language on ukrainians. wow, what horror. and holy crap....ukrainians are not russians, if they were, they would be be called russians. we have a different language, culture and yes...believe it or not, a different country. you can look at any map of europe to see this.

freedom and fair representation is not 'trouble', it is a write after you have voted for it.

ps....its lviv, not lwov. kyjiv, not kiev.

[Kozak]

MY father was born in 1911, so yes my great grandfather was born a serf. Serfdom was gone in almost of all Western Europe by the 16th century. It only remained in Russia, Poland and Prussia into the 18th century.

As for the poor Russian Kulaks who died during the Famine, I never said that only Ukrainians died. But the fact is the Soviet Union continued and intensified the grand Russian tradition of imperialism on the Ukraine. The first order of business for the Red Army was the reconquest of Ukraine during the Civil War.

Russians must be amazingly weak nation if 3 foreigners were able to completely dominate 200 million for 50 years.

Guess Germany is not responsible for Nazi's since Hitler was an Austrian huh?

[Kozak]

Ukranians are the same as Russians there is no difference except geographical. The ones that live in west Lwov and past Kiev to the left are making all the trouble.

This PERFECTLY illuminates the history of Russian behavior towards Ukrainians. WE DON'T even exist as a people. They've been trying to destroy our sense of nationhood since Catherine the Great. And they are still at it.

[jb6]

So your father was born in 1911, lets say your grandfather was born 1 year before the end of serfdom, hmmm, that would mean your grandfather was at least 52 when he had your father? Not bad for an old man, considering the average mortality rate was around 50.

As for Ukraine, don't go out of your way or break your arm patting yourself on the back in pitty of how you were the martyrs of some ficticious Soviet vendeta. All of the former empire suffered under the Soviets, with the exception of Poland, Ukrainian Poland and Finland.

As I recall, the only Ukrainian state that ever existed was from 1917 to about 1922. It was originally a German Imperial protectorate, where the German army went village to village raiding for food till Ukraine rebelled from their "liberators" and then was run by an anarchist, who switched sides between the Reds and Whites like the wind.

[Kozak]

" My great grandfather was indeed a serf"

I said my GREAT Grandfather, not that your hair spliting matters okay? You love the straw man argument dontcha, like it would really make a difference in my argument by one generation?

Funny, Russians seemed to do okay compared to pretty much everyone else in the Soviet Union.

Isn't it enlightening that EVERY time we Ukrainians feel the grip of Russia loosen just a little we jump at the chance at independence or at least seperation from Russia? Even if it means jumping for a less then perfect alternative? 1917 when offered the opportunity by Imperial Germany ( HAD to be better then being Russian part of the Russian Empire). 1941 when offered the opportunity by Nazi Germany ( HAD to be better then the starvation and terror of the Soviet Union). Something about the Devil you don't know being preferred to the Devil you do. Now the latest in 1991 when being ruled by local gangsters seemed preferable the gangsters in Moscow.


"All of the former empire suffered under the Soviets, with the exception of Poland, "

HAHAHA. Would love to see you make that statement to my Polish friends. Pretty much demonstrates your separation from reality.

[jb6]

Funny, Russians seemed to do okay compared to pretty much everyone else in the Soviet Union.

Guess you don't read statistics that the best standards of living were in Georgia, Armenia, Azerbajan and the Baltics? Who's hair splitting? Yes, only 20 million Russians killed under the Communists, nothing major.

[Kozak]

Check out post 69. This is how many Russians think.

[jb6]

Ukrainians feel the grip of Russia loosen just a little we jump at the chance at independence or at least seperation from Russia?

Which YOU Ukrainians? Last time I was in Russia there were tons of Ukrainian illegals, something to the tune of over 5 million. The main voices are coming from Polish land stolen and given to Ukraine by the Soviets.

[jb6]

1917 when offered the opportunity by Imperial Germany ( HAD to be better then being Russian part of the Russian Empire).

Again, you're all propaganda and ZERO facts. Maybe you heard of the treaty signed by Lenin giving up Poland, Ukraine and the Baltics to the Germans? Say oh, end of 1917? Take a hint at it's name. It was done to pull Russia out of the war with Germany.

[Kozak]

Sad you murdered (best of) your own. Doesn't excuse murder and oppression of neighbors.

[jb6]

I didn't murder anyone, nor did any of my ancestors. I do enjoy pointing out historic fact to your nationalistic propaganda. Besides, last I checked, Lvov belongs to Poland, or should if not for the Communists.

[Kozak]

So? And if bastard Lenin hadn't signed Germans whould have been in Moscow. Does not contradict my argument.

[jb6]

Germans in WW1 in Moscow? Now you are puffing to much crack.

[Kozak]

Big deal. Borders change all the time. Entire nation of Poland moved 60 miles West at end of WW2. Russia going to return East Prussia? Oh don't bother, all Germans were removed. Fact that Soviets grabbed what they could and had some benefit for eventual Ukrainian state bothers me not at all, not like they asked Ukrainians for permission. Personally, would love a real honest plebisite in all former Soviet territories to see who wants to live under what Government. If East wants to go back to Russia, okay. Betting large chunks of what remains of Russia would also opt out of "Federation".

Question. Why is Russian Nationalism oh so Holy, but God forbid a Ukrainian wish his country be allowed to try and develop in peace and independance?

[Agog]

You are mistating facts, once again. Kozak stated that were it not for the fact that Lenin signed the Brest-Litovsk treaty in 1917, the Germans likely would have been in Moscow. He never stated that the Germans actually were in Moscow.