Duck, Microsoft: Firefox Is Coming To Retail Stores (Linux offering OpenOffice & Firefox together)

TechWeb ^ | November 22, 2004 | TechWeb.com

[Eagle9]

Linux operating-system producer Linspire Inc. has found another way to challenge Microsoft: it's offering its OpenOffice.org product suite and the Mozilla Foundation's Firefox browser in a single package in retail channels.

Linspire, formerly called Lindows, positions its OOoFf package to directly compete with Microsoft Office. The OpenOffice.org product enables users to create spreadsheets, presentations, and documents using files in popular formats, including .doc, .xls and .ppt. The Linspire product also enables users to utilize the PDF format.

"Our goal with OOoFf is to help get OpenOffice.org and Firefox into every possible distribution channel," said Linspire CEO Michael Robertson in a statement Monday. "As users grow comfortable with these high-quality open-source products, it makes the migration to desktop Linux a much more practical transition."

The combo OOoFf consists of an installation CD-ROM, documentation materials, and Flash tutorials. The software is compatible with Windows 98 and higher and Mac OS X 10.2 and higher.

Firefox has been downloaded by more than 10 million users, and the browser has taken some market share from Microsoft's Internet Explorer. The Linspire Linux-based operating system has been designed for desktop and laptop computers, and the firm said the new Firefox- OOoFf package should help spur the growth of its Linux operating system.

[Chemist_Geek]

Windows worked when Linux didn't. It's as simple as that.

[Paridel]

Like buying more 3rd party software to protect you from the crap MS give you.

The stuff I mentioned is free. Anyway, you are correct in that it wouldn't be a straight up test of IE vs firefox. If you want to do that for scientific interest that sure, that is perfectly fair. I didn't mean to claim that isn't being nice to MS, not at all.

I'm just trying to say that if with those free tools I.E. works better for me than firefox (/w or w/o same tools), I will use I.E. + free tools, even if sans tools firefox wins.

That wouldn't necessarily be representative of the quality of firefox vs I.E., just what gave me the best total package as a user. The test was perfectly valid if SP1 + updates were used, and is representative of the base security of each program. I can't complain about that.

However it would be more interesting to me as a test with I.E. + extra tools, because I do use that extra stuff, and highly recommend everyone else does as well.

For the record, I mainly use firefox because I love tabbed browsing. I use I.E. about 20% of the time, it works better for me on some sites.

Anyway, I would be interested in how SP2 performs, but I'm way too lazy to do the test myself. If you do it again it would be cool if you could post the results. I would also recommending this about a similar test: AntiSpyWare Test, I found it very interesting.

-paridel

[Chemist_Geek]

Flamed. Huh. Yes, if not genuflecting before the altar of Linux and (horrors!) turning to the Dark Side and reinstalling Windows, and then speaking the truth about Linux, is considered flaming.

[Chemist_Geek]

And the flaming I'm receiving right now is further proof of the existence of the Linux Attitude^TM, I might add...

[N3WBI3]

Yea its funny when you use commands that actually exist (like ifconfig) you might get stuff to work..

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Only with Internet Explorer, you can blocked all popups.

Is that you, Bush2000?

[streetpreacher]

And best of all, its super-stable. No more "blue screen of death."

Have you ever used XP? That's a Win98 phenomena; it's simply not an issue anymore. Since Service Pack 2 (and before), I have never found Windows to be more reliable.

[N3WBI3]

Yes, if not genuflecting before the altar of Linux

Who needs to prise Linux. If I call you a rat-ba$t4rd and then ask for directions Im sure I would get more than a polite look and a handshake after you give them to me.

Saying 'how do I install Firefox' is not the same as saying 'you suck, how do I install FireFox'. Its called manners dude, you get what you give.

truth about Linux, is considered flaming.

The truth that you dont know ifconfig from ipconfig? what book were you using?

You said Linux users attack newbs with questions for sport. I put up a post showing a counter example of that. You put up a post to you slapping somone in the face and not even asking a question (where was the question in your post?)

[Paridel]

Im happy that youre l33t enough to build your own Kernel but I never have to do that on a desktop system.

Err, wasn't trying to claim that is necessary. (Also I don't really want to claim I'm l33t, 80% of the difficulty of compiling your own Kernel is a matter of just not getting scared and going for it). I do some weird stuff with my computers, and I have some fairly esoteric hardware including a midi device that evidently only myself and two or three people in japan use with Linux (that's what I get for buying computer hardware in Asia I suppose) and so for that I typically have to add my own patch. Maybe I should put a disclaimer: I am not representative of a typical Linux user!

Rather I was trying to say I don't know what the experience would be like for a complete noob cause I am not one. I also wonder if Linux advocates always get that... partitioning a hard drive is a scary though for people like my Mom. Anyway, I was basically just asking that question: how complicated is it really for people who aren't in the field?

It was totally uninformed flaming. You were using *IPCONFIG* I want to know what book told you to use ipconfig.

So, to be fair, as far as flaming goes that was just a small heat lamp. I would venture a guess that he wasn't remembering the command correctly, that the book said ifconfig, and that he wasn't logged in with a user that had access to that command. Again, just a guess. I assume the parent post was from memory, not with the book in front of him. Anyway, sure, if you want to ask for help it isn't a good idea to insult the people that would give it to you (only out of the goodness of their hearts) first.

-paridel

[N3WBI3]

lol, yea you call Linux Crap and its users rude, arrogent, and other such rubbish and its proof Linux has the TradeMark for rude people..

(DrEvil) Riiiigggttt (/DrEvil)

[N3WBI3]

Here is a typical exchange between a total newbie and some help on a free Linux Forum

Notice when one refrains from insulting somebody they get polite helpful answers..

[Doohickey]

Sorry to hear about that. I can't verify if that's common because I use Hyena at work for the NT 4.0 stuff. NT ends mainstream support in just over a month anyway and we're close to being completely off.

[Uncle Hal]

I have had Firefox for 2 weeks and I have had no pop ups on any site including Drudges. On IE I get pop ups on Drudge and other sites.

[Paridel]

So, in order to make it fair, you have to...

No. No, you don't have to do anything. You don't have to make it fair. It doesn't matter if it is fair or not. What does fair have to do with anything! I'm not grading MS and OSS developers on a high school geometry test, I'm talking about the end user experience.

What matters is what end results will work best for the user. Doesn't matter if that is one product for one users, or multiple products for multiple users. That was my whole point.

Defending someone for using a MS product is far different than defending MS. It is inexcusable for MS IE to be susceptible to so many bugs. If it makes you feel better: Bad MS! Go to your room!. "Fair" matters to me as a MS critic. But if, with a 20 second download and install, I fix a lot these problems to me as a user it doesn't really effect me.

-paridel

[SouthTexas]

I didn't-popup blocked.

[Knitebane]

But if, with a 20 second download and install, I fix a lot these problems to me as a user it doesn't really effect me.

Ah, but there's the rub. In order for this to happen:

1. The user must know that it's necessary.
2. The user must be technically savvy enough to determine which packages to download and install.
3. The user must be technically savvy enough to properly configure those packages (or, at least, enough not to misconfigure them)
4. The user must be willing to do so.

And generally, if the user is sufficiently technical to do all of the above, the user is sufficiently technical to run another OS that doesn't require him to do all of the above. (or, at least, to run something other than IE and Outlook.)

And judging by the backbone traffic percentages, which list spam from 0wn3d Windows boxes, virus traffic from 0wn3d Windows boxes and DDoS attacks from 0wn3d Windows boxes taking up around 80% of all Internet traffic, I'd say that generally, the typical Windows user is not sufficiently capable to comply with any of the above four points.

Therefore, it either needs to be done for them (by Microsoft) or they need to be educated.

And if you're going to go to the trouble of educating a user, why bother fooling around with twiddling IE bits? Just tell them to use Firefox, Thunderbird and Sophos AV. Then they won't need all of that stuff.

In other words, you want them to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic and I want to give them a ticket on another boat.

[MississippiMan]

Both of those work with Windows right???

Yes, both work with Windows. And both are available online as downloads free of charge. Open Office is a heck of a suite for the price, $0. I've tinkered with it several times on several different machines. When creating new documents, spreadsheets, whatever, it's fine. I've encountered plenty of burps when bringing Office files into it, however. My personal preference remains MS Office, but if someone is on a tight budget, OO is very attractive.

As for Linux, Linspire has finally created a package that the average non-geek barely literate user can probably install and use. The installation process is straightforward and the interface is very Windows-like, enough so that performing typical tasks like browsing and office work is not that much of a transition.

MM

[Paridel]

Ah, but there's the rub. In order for this to happen:

I was talking about my own personal use, so those assumptions would hold up, but that is certainly fair. You are 100% right. The user has to do a certain amount of work, whether that be installing Linux, using firefox, or securing IE. The sad thing is that it is a very little amount of work, and yet very few do it.

I do recommend both Firefox and Thunderbird, however I know a lot of people that like IE, they like Outlook, they don't quite believe me that ad-ware is as bad as I say it is, etc. I can typically convince them to at least install the programs I mentioned earlier to clean up IE's act, run ad-aware and spybot every once and a while, and keep windows up to date.

you want them to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic and I want to give them a ticket on another boat.

I want what you want. A better computer experience for myself and others, although we might just disagree a little on the details... Look, you and I are not going to be able to change the minds of a couple hundred million people running Windows without regards to security. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try. I figured anyone savvy enough to be reading this thread could figure out how to do what I had listed. As far as other people... look, if you can convince them to use firefox, thunderbird, great. If you can't, then help them install tools to patch up IE. If you can convince them to install Linux, well, as long as you are willing to help them with tech support (which you seem pretty willing to do), that's great too. (I've never tried to get anyone to run Linux, but I have helped out probably 20 people install in on their machine, about half of those not in install fests, just people I know who asked).

I don't really disagree with you as much as you seem to think. I'm OK with people using Linux, and OK with people using Windows (which you may disagree with). I (and I'm sure you) are not happy about the number of rooted boxes on the net. Spyware probably helps that along a good deal, but I'm also sad that I can't stop even people I know pretty well from installing p2p programs loaded with crud, and downloading pirated programs from mirc.

There are a ton of people out there with broadband connections who don't care if their box pollutes the Internet. Sure, software, maybe in particular IE, could help out more, but as long as their are people like that who are willing to trade the security of their system for some pirated movies, songs, and programs, there will still be a problem.

Despite any disagreements we may have on Win/Linux, various technical issues, etc. You are obviously very technically savvy, and I am happy to have you working along with me to try do what we can about security on the net. The fact is if you convince them to run another O/S or I convince them to patch up IE and/or run firefox, either way the situation is improved.

In fact, anyone reading this thread should also convince their friends and family to do the same.

-paridel

[shellshocked]

"No. Just because *you* would be clicking 5000 times doesn't mean you have to.
"

rename *.jpg *.gif


No problem.

[zeugma]

Well, now we know what happened to Golden Eagle. Microsoft has outsourced its shilling to Indonesia or someplace.

hahahahahahaha. God, I almost fell out of my chair. You hit the nail right on the head! I saw an article the other day that microsoft was going to be outsourcing some stuff to India. Now we know what, don't we? hahahaha.

At least english wasn't GE and B2K's second language.