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But if, with a 20 second download and install, I fix a lot these problems to me as a user it doesn't really effect me.

Ah, but there's the rub. In order for this to happen:

1. The user must know that it's necessary.
2. The user must be technically savvy enough to determine which packages to download and install.
3. The user must be technically savvy enough to properly configure those packages (or, at least, enough not to misconfigure them)
4. The user must be willing to do so.

And generally, if the user is sufficiently technical to do all of the above, the user is sufficiently technical to run another OS that doesn't require him to do all of the above. (or, at least, to run something other than IE and Outlook.)

And judging by the backbone traffic percentages, which list spam from 0wn3d Windows boxes, virus traffic from 0wn3d Windows boxes and DDoS attacks from 0wn3d Windows boxes taking up around 80% of all Internet traffic, I'd say that generally, the typical Windows user is not sufficiently capable to comply with any of the above four points.

Therefore, it either needs to be done for them (by Microsoft) or they need to be educated.

And if you're going to go to the trouble of educating a user, why bother fooling around with twiddling IE bits? Just tell them to use Firefox, Thunderbird and Sophos AV. Then they won't need all of that stuff.

In other words, you want them to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic and I want to give them a ticket on another boat.

Ah, but there's the rub. In order for this to happen:

I was talking about my own personal use, so those assumptions would hold up, but that is certainly fair. You are 100% right. The user has to do a certain amount of work, whether that be installing Linux, using firefox, or securing IE. The sad thing is that it is a very little amount of work, and yet very few do it.

I do recommend both Firefox and Thunderbird, however I know a lot of people that like IE, they like Outlook, they don't quite believe me that ad-ware is as bad as I say it is, etc. I can typically convince them to at least install the programs I mentioned earlier to clean up IE's act, run ad-aware and spybot every once and a while, and keep windows up to date.

you want them to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic and I want to give them a ticket on another boat.

I want what you want. A better computer experience for myself and others, although we might just disagree a little on the details... Look, you and I are not going to be able to change the minds of a couple hundred million people running Windows without regards to security. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try. I figured anyone savvy enough to be reading this thread could figure out how to do what I had listed. As far as other people... look, if you can convince them to use firefox, thunderbird, great. If you can't, then help them install tools to patch up IE. If you can convince them to install Linux, well, as long as you are willing to help them with tech support (which you seem pretty willing to do), that's great too. (I've never tried to get anyone to run Linux, but I have helped out probably 20 people install in on their machine, about half of those not in install fests, just people I know who asked).

I don't really disagree with you as much as you seem to think. I'm OK with people using Linux, and OK with people using Windows (which you may disagree with). I (and I'm sure you) are not happy about the number of rooted boxes on the net. Spyware probably helps that along a good deal, but I'm also sad that I can't stop even people I know pretty well from installing p2p programs loaded with crud, and downloading pirated programs from mirc.

There are a ton of people out there with broadband connections who don't care if their box pollutes the Internet. Sure, software, maybe in particular IE, could help out more, but as long as their are people like that who are willing to trade the security of their system for some pirated movies, songs, and programs, there will still be a problem.

Despite any disagreements we may have on Win/Linux, various technical issues, etc. You are obviously very technically savvy, and I am happy to have you working along with me to try do what we can about security on the net. The fact is if you convince them to run another O/S or I convince them to patch up IE and/or run firefox, either way the situation is improved.

In fact, anyone reading this thread should also convince their friends and family to do the same.

-paridel