New DMV Head Advocates Tax On MilesDriven

The KCRA Channel ^ | November 16, 2004 | staff

[absalom01]

New DMV Head Advocates Tax On Miles Driven

Joan Borucki Is Veteran Of State Transportation Programs

POSTED: 10:16 am PST November 16, 2004
UPDATED: 6:19 pm PST November 16, 2004
SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- Tired of high gas prices? Right now, drivers are paying a tax of 18 cents for every gallon of gas bought. The new chief of the state Department of Motor Vehicles has an idea that would wipe out the gas tax, but at what cost?

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's newly appointed director of the DMV, Joan Borucki, wants to charge people for every mile they drive.Schwarzenegger said Tuesday that the idea has yet to receive in-depth consideration, but talk of a "mileage tax" is causing a political commotion.Honda dealer Katina Rapton says that the idea of an "mileage tax" is crazy, and that California already requires the manufacture and sale of clean-burning, fuel-efficient cars, which cost consumers more to drive off the lot."To me it doesn't make much sense," Rapton said. "And then turn around and penalize them on the backside for using their cars and getting better gas mileage? It doesn't make much sense."The mileage could be tracked with a device placed in the car. It's an idea that Borucki included in the governor's recently completed California Performance Review. The idea is echoed by transportation planners.

"We have to go to another device because we can't continue to rely on the gas tax in its current form, because we're using less gasoline as the price of gas goes up," said Mineta Transportation Institute spokesman Rod Diridon Sr.But Schwarzenegger, who was in Stockton Tuesday, was talking cautiously."I know the idea that has been talked about. But I don't know exactly what that would mean and what effect it would have exactly. So, I want to think it through before I make a commitment on that," Schwarzenegger said.The idea could be politically explosive for the governor who was elected, in part, on his pledge to roll back the state's car tax.Highly fuel-efficient cars like the Honda Civic would be most dramatically impacted if the idea goes forward because the driver would be charged for the miles driven, not the gas consumed.

[oldbrowser]

Think about it.

rather than make changes at thousands of gas stations every time they want to raise the gas tax, they can now
just change the rate. Plus, as the fuel efficiency increases on newer models, the government's revenues are not affected.
Any level of government can now add say a half cent for a particular city for say street repairs. Kind of like the sales tax programs.

[eiffel]

before there are cameras on the freeway taking pictures of all of us who are exceeding the 65 MPH limit...

It's already happened here in Denver. A few years ago, the city deployed white vans equipped with radar guns and cameras and parked them on the side of the highway. If you passed one going 5 mph over, the camera took two pictures, one of the license plate, one of the driver. A few days later, a $25-$40 'ticket' would be delievered via registered mail. No points were assesed, it was basically a parking ticket, simply intended to make money for the county.

They were making thousands a day with basically no running costs, just had to park the van and make sure there were batteries in the camera. Luckily, after about six months a district judge put a stop to them.

If they ever decide to use photo-radar in CA, there are transparent filters and sprays you can put on your license plate to reflect the flash.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Head of DMV?

I imagine some, arrogant, 400 pound welfare jockey, sitting in a over stuffed, tax paid, government leather chair, with fishing tackle hanging off their ears, yawning at 300 people standing in line and moving as slow as syrup on a cold day.

[shaggy eel]

,,, if road funding is what it's paying for, maybe. Singapore has a tolling system that's reasonably sophisticated. It reads the gadget on your car and you're billed for a composite of the road you choose and the time you choose to be on it [peak flows rather than elapsed time].

In New Zealand we've had road user charges for diesel vehicles since 1978... the problem is, the money collected from those charges goes to the consolidated fund to pay welfare instead of the dedicated roading fund it's meant to go to. The ideal scenario could be to have expressways set up as a company the public can buy into on the stock exchange, much like the Milan to Turin Autostrada is, with the State leasing the Company the land the roads are on for a fixed amount per year and pricing ceilings or, at the very least, a State review board to oversee price hikes. State/Government doesn't really have to be involved in the operational side infrastructure as much as it is.

[agitator]

[agitator]

the lardasses who become heads of dmv's are people who, in exchange for making sure that the insurance company wishlist is enacted in the state legislature, get a phat noshow job with the insurance industry as soon as they leave govt.

[o_zarkman44]

I read yesterday that yet another California company has decided to leave California and re-locate in Missouri. Their loss is our gain!

Californians can thank the highly intelligent tax and spend pundits whose only job is to bring in more revenue.
When California hears the sucking sound of more good jobs going to tax friendly, non invasive states with reasonable environmental laws they once again can thank their great politicians.

California may be the 5th largest economy in the world, but it ranks last in the ability to say no to new tax and spend schemes.

[Dog Gone]

In theory, I don't mind people paying for services they use. The question is where you draw the line.

How much should I be paying for our armed forces, for example? I don't personally use them at all, but there's no doubt that we need to have them and that I benefit from them.

A better example might be our postal service. It costs me the same to mail a letter to my neighbor as to someone on the North Slope of Alaska. If we charged differentially, distant locations would have almost no mail service, and economic growth would definitely be hampered in rural areas.

I'm not sure what the solution is, or even if there is one. We need roads and the people who use roads should pick up the major cost of them. That is what the gasoline tax was designed to do, and I think it's worked pretty well so far for us.

[chuckwalla]

I thought this was our country and we elected representitives to represent us not pick our pockets.
They spend way too much money on useless things and political devices to get them reelected and know that since we must drive we have to pay whatever they want to tack on even though the money doesn't go to represent us in the way of better roads.
In essence they are stealing our money for their own use. I.e., to get reelected.
Health care for illegals costs how many billions per year?
When you take a closer look everything we do is taxed.
They have way too much money. Far more than needed to run the state exclusive of pet projects.

[fritzz]

Wow, I was not aware of how they were planning on doing this. California has got to have at 10,000,000 autos. That's a lot of data being transferred. I do not want my car being traced. I'll take the risk of theft, breakdown or being lost....just give me the option.

So Now I'll sell repair kits to help put GPS systems on the right track. And, we might need a mini-jammer while we are repairing our system.

[shaggy eel]

the people who use roads should pick up the major cost of them. That is what the gasoline tax was designed to do, and I think it's worked pretty well so far for us.

,,, it has here too, but with 51c of every litre (@$NZ1,23 per litre) in tax, tax on petrol can't really be hiked much higher. I think you're right, user pays principles are the way to go but they do marginalise those in rural/remote areas.

[chuckwalla]

The problem with tampering with the gps is that they will say if you only show say ten miles on the gps then you can only buy one half gallon or one third gallon based on your usage. It will be illegal to buy more than you have used.
Another crime for us law abiding people to be charged with.
While illegals are running around free because they supposedly contribute to the economy.
Well don't we contribute to the economy?
We work, we pay tons of taxes, and now they want more of our money.
NO WAY JOSE.

[datura]

Along those same lines are the collection of these new "taxes". Just how are they going to do this? Send you a bill in the mail? How often? How will this rate compare to the current rates paid through gas taxes? Will they even bother to eliminate the gas tax - NO - this would most likely be "in addition to". Plus, would the state then come along and confiscate your vehicle if you don't pay your taxes? Or would they merely disable it remotely?

Here you are on I-5 during rush hour, you're late in paying your tax, and they shut you off in the left lane.....

If California goes along with this, you all deserve what you get. How far under the thumbs of these neocommunists are you going to get before anyone grows the spine to step up and say "NO MORE!"?????? They've damn near disarmed you, now they want to control your movement. Wake up....

[fritzz]

We have a lot of people license their cars in Oregon, ( it about $25 for 2 years). They have family, business address, or some mailing address. I personally know of a couple of people who do this. And this is just to save on Idaho's annual auto tax and fee of $35-$60. I think business could move out and individuals who live on the border of neighbor states might do a little cheating. Buy gas across the border. Oregon has refused to put in a sales tax because of their border retailers. You tax, things happen.

[Myrddin]

That, and this proposal is even more insidious -- the system does not rely on odometers (partly for the reason that fritzz identifies), but on a GPS device in the car. The tax authority can track WHERE and WHEN you are driving. Of course, this information wouldn't be kept on file, and would only be aggregated for tax purposes blah blah blah.

Put a wet sock over the GPS antenna. No signal, no tracking. There are many places where GPS signals can not be picked up (urban canyons, natural canyons, tree cover, parking garages). Since loss of coverage is normal, you can force a prolonged one. The only way to detect this attempt to cover the GPS tracking would be to also electronically track a mechanical (wheel rotation) odometer in parallel with the GPS.

[ThinkDifferent]

The problem, though, is that the user does not pay an incremental cost that accurately reflects his use of the system; he has no clear financial incentive to vary his travel times and/or routes in response to variations in demand.

Yes and no. When I'm sitting in rush hour traffic, I'm using more gas and wasting more time than I would be driving in off-peak hours, so there are already some incentives. Although I would agree that most motorists don't take that into account.

[Myrddin]

Here you are on I-5 during rush hour, you're late in paying your tax, and they shut you off in the left lane.....

It's so much simpler than that. A judge issues a bench warrant for your arrest. The charge is failure to pay your taxes. You'll get a knock on the door at 5 AM or arrested the next time a cop pulls you over for a traffic stop. Even simpler...your license gets suspended if you fail to pay.

[ridesthemiles]

Sooooo Who is paying for the Geo-positioning unit that they will require in my vehicle? How often will I have to mandatorily have to "upgrade" this unit because "newer and better" units are now available?

Without a search warrant, this government had better have a good story why I should have this unit in my vehicle.

People are paying less into the gas tax coffers because we are getting onto the mass transit that they have forced down our throats. The tolls on the bridges-particularly in SF area- have gone nuts, and we have been guilted into buying little tin boxes on wheels that get lots of mpg, but are a rolling place to die. Way too light and way too thin or plastic.

If I had been guilted into buying a Prius and had waited over a year for my car and paid like $10,000 over high Mfg list because of the demand to get high mileage, then was told to pay taxes based on the miles I drive, I have been shafted.

Since there is such a high rate of vacationers in Calif with out of state vehicles, how will they tax those people for gas tax?
This will drive people right out of Calif. Tooooo much like Big Brother. SCARY. It is NO ONE's business where I go and how many miles I drive.

How many people bought houses quite a ways from the city center because they couldn't afford the high inner city prices, etc, and are commuting a passle of miles each day in order to own their own home, This will penalize them all over again.

[chuckwalla]

You are painfully right.
The unconstitutional laws against firearms just got bigger with arnold signing the fifty cal ban that the dems have been trying to get passed for years. Even though they lost many times they just kept on trying(while we are apying them to take away our rights).
They still want a tax on each bullet, something like 5 cents each not to mention the id on each bullet at an additional cost.
Even though the federal assault weapons ban is gone Ca is keeping it's ban.
I'm hoping real hard that enough people wake up and see the havoc these dimwits are causing.
Now that we have al qaeda terrorists targetting us personally we need our right to self defense restored.
The nerve of those people.

[ridesthemiles]

The question is how to fund roads and their repairs. We all bitch about roads, but none of us want to pay to fix them or build new ones.""

The money has been in the road and highway repair/building fund.
Gray Davis raided that specific fund 3 different times and put the $$$ into the general fund to pay for all the feel good and fuzzy items the Liberals in Sacramento keep voting for.