Bush Reforms Immigration

Minnisota Daily ^ | 11/19/04

[Independentamerican]

Last week, President George W. Bush finally signaled his intention to push for the immigration reform plan he unveiled nearly one year ago. That’s good news for a proposal that offers a creative solution to a long-standing problem. The plan, designed to grant temporary legal status to millions of undocumented aliens working in the United States, met a chilly reception when it was announced in January. Bush did little to promote it during the presidential election.

( SNIP )

The measure is certain to face intense opposition. Republican members of Congress have argued Bush’s temporary worker program rewards — and therefore encourages — illegal immigration. Members of both parties see immigration as a security threat in the post-Sept. 11, 2001, world. Some unions believe immigrants will undercut U.S. workers.

-SNIP-

Concern that immigrant workers compete with U.S. workers for scarce jobs is equally mistaken. Most immigrant laborers fill positions that U.S. workers pass over — retail and service-sector jobs that pay low wages and require little skill.

-SNIP-

The Bush proposal takes a more enlightened approach. It sees immigration as a net gain for the economy and ties temporary legal status to gainful employment. It wisely stops short of amnesty by requiring immigrant workers to eventually return home

[Fatalis]

Any compromise offered to sell this monstrosity is merely convenient political cover for the politicians...just like the 1986 amnesty fiasco.

Would you accept a compromise that included Tom Tancredo's guest worker proposal?

[RS]

"Because employers can land some illegals to do the job for an under-the-table pittance."

Yep, but I was responding to a post which said " whether working at minimumu wage or accepting something less to avoid being reported "

I suppose the illegals would take $2/hr and all they can steal, although the ones outside Home Depot are taking the jobs Americans won't do.

[NJ_gent]

"Then it's NOT an amnesty program like it has been breathlessly reported?"

Not in Captain Insane-o's 29th Century dictionary. However, Merriam-Webster takes a different view.

Amnesty: the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals

And just for good measure:

Pardon: 3 a : a release from the legal penalties of an offense b : an official warrant of remission of penalty

Now - what would happen if an illegal immigrant were caught right now? What would happen if this exact same illegal immigrant were caught following the enactment of this program into law?

Any which way you slice and dice it - it's amnesty plain and simple. Gub'mint doublespeek notwithstanding, it's amnesty, and it's wrong. Rewarding sovereignty-violating, law-breaking, border-breaking illegal immigrant criminals with rights to jobs and benefits while refusing to secure our borders in the middle of a war is stupid, idiotic, and wrong, and it's going to get a lot of good Americans killed.

Maybe people will pay attention when shopping malls, nightclubs, and buses start exploding at random. Maybe they'll pay attention when a city is leveled by a nuclear device and a few million Americans are dead. Who knows what it'll take - but eventually people will realize that we must secure our borders.

[Fatalis]

Then it's NOT an amnesty program like it has been breathlessly reported?

It's an amnesty. It legalizes illegal aliens with at temporary status for a fee, and then provides them with opportunities to apply for permanent residence and eventual citizenship. This is exactly what the Reagan Amnesty did.

[txdoda]

There are a lot of jobs, especially in the food industry (McD's, etc.) that go begging because many American kids are too damn lazy to take them.

My two high schoolers had he** finding part-time jobs mostly due to LAWS against hiring under 18 yrs. & insurance companies refusing to insure if you employ those under 18.

(or at least this is the excuses many businesses are giving kids now days.)

[WRhine]

Now that's something I'd love to see - the Federal government trying to interfere with a state government and its voluntary citizen militia protecting its borders from invasion... Such an event could very well spell the collapse of the Federal government if both sides held their ground.

Good Point. At a minimum, it would put a spotlight on the FedGov's treason and complicity in encouraging this secular invasion of our country.

[WRhine]

Now that's something I'd love to see - the Federal government trying to interfere with a state government and its voluntary citizen militia protecting its borders from invasion... Such an event could very well spell the collapse of the Federal government if both sides held their ground.

Good Point. At a minimum, it would put a spotlight on the FedGov's treason and complicity in encouraging this secular invasion of our country.

[Fatalis]

Do you honestly believe that folks who have already broken the law will voluntarily "eventually return home"?

Not if they're rewarded for breaking the law, which is what the President's proposal would do. However, self deportation can be a substantial reality with the right positive and negative reinfrocements, such as those in Tancredo's plan.

[NJ_gent]

"although the ones outside Home Depot are taking the jobs Americans won't do."

It's tough to say whether Americans would or wouldn't do those jobs when they never get the chance because Jose is ready and willing to do it for next to nothing, now isn't it?

[treffner]

how about posting well equipt civilian malitias on the border.

[Fatalis]

Now that's something I'd love to see - the Federal government trying to interfere with a state government and its voluntary citizen militia protecting its borders from invasion... Such an event could very well spell the collapse of the Federal government if both sides held their ground.

No, it wouldn't, and a lot of people would go to jail in such a scenario. Congress has Constitutional authority over immigration and naturalization. If you want to enable the amnesty steamroller, question that authority.

There's no need to act like knuckleheads. If you oppose amnesty, pressure Congress to incorporate Tancredo's BE REAL Act into the President's immigration reform proposal.

[RS]

"It's tough to say whether Americans would or wouldn't do those jobs when they never get the chance because Jose is ready and willing to do it for next to nothing, now isn't it?"

Jose is the one that's out there looking for work - The work is there and Joe Sixpack isn't.

[NJ_gent]

"My two high schoolers had he** finding part-time jobs mostly due to LAWS against hiring under 18 yrs. & insurance companies refusing to insure if you employ those under 18."

McDonalds (I know from experience) will hire starting at 16 when able. There are plenty of laws governing under-18 workers, and it can be difficult to work around those laws in some states. New Jersey, however, is a very liberal (in terms of government) state, and McDonalds has no problem working around their liberal child labor laws. Also, college students are often in the same position as high school students when it comes to jobs. They need something that's easy, flexible, and which pays them something. Minimum wage doesn't do it for the house, two cars, and kids, but it does just fine for a young adult or child trying to get some spending money. If you go a step up the ladder (Walmart, etc), a regular person can use it as supplemental income, or as something to help them get by until they can get into a good-paying job if their particular skills are not high in demand at a given time.

[WRhine]

Would you accept a compromise that included Tom Tancredo's guest worker proposal?

IMO, all guest worker programs eventually succumb to fraud and corruption. It may start out with the noblest of intentions but as special interests intervene in the political process the "temporary" part of the Guest Worker plan becomes quite permanent.

Also, does anyone think that the entrenched underground Illegal Labor market is going to suddenly go away? I don't think so. I like Tancredo but sorry, guest worker programs no matter how structured are not the answer.

[usadave]

Remove the illegals and the wages will go up.

And with them, prices.

Prices would likely go up by a small percentage.

[NJ_gent]

"No, it wouldn't, and a lot of people would go to jail in such a scenario."

The states in question would have broad appeal to the American people. The Federal government would either comply, or it would collapse. The Federal government depends entirely on the support of the people. With our all-volunteer military, you will never see a 40+ state uprising put down. The American people would never stand for Federal interference in such an effort, regardless of what is technically lawful jurisdiction. Anyone arrested would probably have no problem at trial. Jury nullification would see to that.

[RS]

"How about we build all the factories along the border, bus 'em in every day, then bus them back home at night? They get paid in the U.S., pay taxes in the U.S., but live in Mexico?"

About 10,000 a day allready do that in San Diego - but your international companies find it easier to just build the plant in Tijuana.

[txdoda]

Where do we start ?

Well gov't could have made the SS# verification program MANDATORY for employers to use. Then actually FINE some of the employers of illegals, give them some *incentive* to hire only legals.

Remove ALL the *incentives* to be in the US illegally.....free health care, anchor babies, welfare, etc, etc, etc.

Enforce our *existing* immigration laws.

THEN offer some 'guest worker' program, IF we need it. To be applied for from origin county ONLY & distributed equally.

They could also *streamline* our procedures for those WAITING to come here legally, in accordance with the workers we need.

[AnimalLover]

Seen this?

LOOK OUT FOR MALDEF - Laborers assail Redondo crackdown on job-seekers

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1284034/posts

[usadave]

Lock down Arizona and they will simply move to the next easier area

Then we would lock down that next easier area, and then keep repeating this process until we have the whole damn border locked down.