Bush Reforms Immigration

Minnisota Daily ^ | 11/19/04

[Independentamerican]

Last week, President George W. Bush finally signaled his intention to push for the immigration reform plan he unveiled nearly one year ago. That’s good news for a proposal that offers a creative solution to a long-standing problem. The plan, designed to grant temporary legal status to millions of undocumented aliens working in the United States, met a chilly reception when it was announced in January. Bush did little to promote it during the presidential election.

( SNIP )

The measure is certain to face intense opposition. Republican members of Congress have argued Bush’s temporary worker program rewards — and therefore encourages — illegal immigration. Members of both parties see immigration as a security threat in the post-Sept. 11, 2001, world. Some unions believe immigrants will undercut U.S. workers.

-SNIP-

Concern that immigrant workers compete with U.S. workers for scarce jobs is equally mistaken. Most immigrant laborers fill positions that U.S. workers pass over — retail and service-sector jobs that pay low wages and require little skill.

-SNIP-

The Bush proposal takes a more enlightened approach. It sees immigration as a net gain for the economy and ties temporary legal status to gainful employment. It wisely stops short of amnesty by requiring immigrant workers to eventually return home

[Fatalis]

A temporary worker program addresses that issue. If the majority of those willing to work get temporary worker status, then it will be much easier to find those businesses that are hiring illegal workers and go after them.

We can find them now without a guest worker program. Congress has a voluntary program in place by which employers can verify if a prospective employee has a legal right to work in the United States. Simply make that program mandatory and you can identify the shops that are employing illegal aliens.

The purpose of the guest worker program should be an inducement for employers to seek inexpensive labor through a legal venue and to provide an opportunity and incentive for illegal aliens to return to their home countries and get in line for legal admission.

Bush's program has a chance of shrinking the problem to the point where we might actually be able to make progress on the issue of illegal immigration.

The President's proposal can do no such thing because it will reward illegal aliens and their employers for breaking the law. Rewarded behavior is not discouraged.

[usadave]

Jose is the one that's out there looking for work - The work is there and Joe Sixpack isn't.

The work is sometimes there. Jose has a lot of competition from other illegal aliens for those jobs he solicits by standing outside Home Depot, so he ends up working perhaps one or two days a week, but that's ok with him because he lives in a one bedroom apartment with 12 other illegal aliens, so his expenses are pretty low. Most Americans would find it very hard to get by working only one or two days a week.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Worth repeating for the easily led.

Yeah right. Whereas our government has vast resources to protect the borders of other countries around the world, and spend billions on foreign aid, SUDDENLY when it comes to protecting America's sovereignty and America's borders "we just don't have the resources".

[txdoda]

Instead, they hire illegal aliens that are willing work for 5 or 6 bucks an hour, with zero benefits, and like it.

Yes, these CO.'s also love it that illegals seldom buy any health insurance, 'cause their medical is usually FREE.

Lot's of Co.'s saving LOTS of money when there's Co-pay insurance offered.

Hey Joe......TX 'catching' up with CA.....Dallas news 'special' the other night says ER waiting room time @ Parkland hosp. now 7/8 HOURS to be treated & *only* 12/13 HOURS wait if you need admitted (No mention of illegals though)

[NJ_gent]

"Well gov't could have made the SS# verification program MANDATORY for employers to use. Then actually FINE some of the employers of illegals, give them some *incentive* to hire only legals."

All rolled into one thing, fines, the rest become unnecessary. If you simply allow and enforce fines that approach the ludicrous, companies will do all that's necessary to ensure they are not employing illegals.

"Remove ALL the *incentives* to be in the US illegally.....free health care, anchor babies, welfare, etc, etc, etc."

Absolutely, and add schooling on that list as well. Our schools do not exist to educate the children of sovereignty-violating criminals.

"Enforce our *existing* immigration laws."

Agreed - and strengthen them.

"THEN offer some 'guest worker' program, IF we need it. To be applied for from origin county ONLY & distributed equally."

Someone earlier posted a statistic that roughly 9 million people apply for work visas to come to the US and work every year, while we only give out about 50,000. If we truly need more workers, we should simply increase the number of visas given to those who've applied lawfully.

"They could also *streamline* our procedures for those WAITING to come here legally, in accordance with the workers we need."

Replacement of the INS with something that actually works sounds good to me.

[Fatalis]

You'll get no argument from me that entitlements and minimum wage laws help foster the black market for illicit labor in which the illegal aliens flourish, but they aren't the only factors in play. Nonenforcement of laws against against employers of illegals is crucial to maintianing the status quo, and enforcement against employers is just as crucial to any solution.

However, since the President's proposal to legalize illegal aliens rewards both them and their unlawful employers, and since this Administration hasn't been especially diligent in prosecuting such employers, nor has it pressed for a mandatory verification of employees' rights to work, it's not reasonable to assume that these will suddenly become priorities if only millions of illegal aliens were to be legalized.

[NJ_gent]

"And the financial incentives for American companies and inventors to automate much of this manual labor"

And who'se going to build, maintain, and upgrade those automated systems? Oh yes, that's right, Americans.

[NJ_gent]

"How 'bout this.....if legal status is given to the illegals, put them to work building a wall. When it's done put them all on the Mexican side of it."

I think that's the only "Guest Worker" program I've seen that I actually like! :-)

[Joe Hadenuf]

Hey Joe......TX 'catching' up with CA.....Dallas news 'special' the other night says ER waiting room time @ Parkland hosp. now 7/8 HOURS to be treated & *only* 12/13 HOURS wait if you need admitted (No mention of illegals though

I know. Got friends in NC, CO, Tennessee and it's the same thing there. We've been had!

[txdoda]

Someone earlier posted a statistic that roughly 9 million people apply for work visas to come to the US and work every year, while we only give out about 50,000. If we truly need more workers, we should simply increase the number of visas given to those who've applied lawfully

That was me.......but I was talking only of the 'visa lottery" the US holds every year. (9.5 million applied last year for only 50K).

We do however issue many more green cards (than 50K) every year......but I don't have the exact number, seems like it's around a million though.

[NJ_gent]

"if you had those kinds of numbers and passion we wouldn't even be having this conversation"

Under those circumstances, it would be far more an issue about the crushing jackboot of overzealous and out of control big government destroying the rights of citizens to secure themselves than it would be about illegal immigration. Also, we'd have those kinds of numbers if people realized just how much this issue does affect them. Right now, they don't see that they're directly affected, so they're largely apathetic.

[RS]

"Joe Sixpack can't work 12 hours for $20 and a sandwich."

You seem to be missing the point that Joe Sixpack is UNEMPLOYED .... he is working zero hours to support his family. It's not like this job would even be on the market if the homeowner would have to pay $150 a day to rake leaves.

For $20 the homeowner will sit and watch the football game, for $150 ( which Joe Sixpack would demand ) he will rake them himself.

[WRhine]

However, the Tancredo plan also calls for more enforcement against illegals and their employers, while simultaneously providing a legal, documented, and regulated source for inexpensive, taxpaying guest labor.

Fatalis, I applaud your optimism that a Tancredo-style guest worker program would work and end the nightmare of illegal immigration. I just don't have the confidence you apparently do that our federal government is going to, all of a sudden, after 30+ years of ignoring its own laws and constitutional responsibilities, put the interests of the American People before the interests of the Cheap Labor Lobby. The latter has some serious bucks that walks a long way in DC.

No, the government has to "earn" its credibility on this by enforcing the law and protecting our borders FIRST before even talking about guest worker programs.

[itsahoot]

and identification of all our illegals will allow them to be kept away from the voting booth.

Don't you know we are trying to make it legal for illegals to vote in Kalifornia?<(•¿•)>

[RS]

"and since this Administration hasn't been especially diligent in prosecuting such employers, nor has it pressed for a mandatory verification of employees' rights to work,"

as opposed to which previous administration that has ?

I don't see Congress passing all sorts of new laws to control this - Bush is providing a plan where noone else has.

[itsahoot]

I agree as well. They're coming anyway so we may as well be sure they're documented.

Sort of like asking a drove of thieves passing through your house, to sign a guest register. The government don't want to open their doors to the illegal, they want you to open yours.

[Joe Hadenuf]

You seem to be missing the point that Joe Sixpack is UNEMPLOYED .... he is working zero hours to support his family. It's not like this job would even be on the market if the homeowner would have to pay $150 a day to rake leaves.

Rake leaves? LOL!

These greedy employers, contractors etc, that would rather pay an illegal alien $9. an hour, with NO benefits, instead of $25. per hour that construction jobs use to pay. Americans are being had. These millions of border jumpers are driving *down* the freaking wages.

[itsahoot]

Bears repeating:

Congress will roll over on this and all we'll say is Kerry would have been worse.

Congress will roll over on this and all we'll say is Kerry would have been worse.

Congress will roll over on this and all we'll say is Kerry would have been worse.

Congress will roll over on this and all we'll say is Kerry would have been worse.

[txdoda]

I don't see Congress passing all sorts of new laws to control this - Bush is providing a plan where noone else has.

Well, you missed the VOLUNTARY SS# verification bill that they passed & GB signed.

After tax-dollars were spent to get this set up nation-wide, our 'critters' made sure it's to be used VOLUNTARIY......ya know, ALL those illegal employers will be using it. /sarcasm

[NJ_gent]

"But, honestly, here in 'small town' TX (since the invasion) it was very hard for my son to find any kind of job before 18. Construction, mechanics, factory, WAL-MART, oil field, all had to be 18"

If they didn't have illegals to do the jobs that have to get done, they'd either hire young people or pay older people more money. One way or another, they've got to have cashiers. Construction or factory jobs often can't do anything because of insurance. Retail locations and fast food locations most certainly can, and will, if they have no other choice.

"he finally was able to sack groceries & (luckily) mow a few lawns."

That's the spirit - get the lad out there working. I don't think anyone's ever understood the value of a good day's work until they've been there. Mowing lawns and sacking groceries may not be much fun or well-paying, but it'll teach him valuable lessons.

"My girl did go to work for a FF joint @ 16 for $5.15 p.h. & was rewarded by the 'Captain' (after 6 mos. excellent work) with a WHOLE 5 CENT p.h. *raise*......& this was last year..... so far I haven't found anyone who can recall such a measly *raise*."

Young people always get bad-paying jobs because they have no skills, no experience, no training, and no specialized education. Further, they don't need the money, as they're not raising a family or supporting anyone, so they'll take whatever they're offered. Also, with the number of jobs young people could be doing being taken by illegals who will work harder and cheaper, there are more kids in supply to work at places that will hire kids. The laws of supply and demand say that if you have 10 people looking for 1 job, you can tailor your offer to meet the demands of the most desperate person. That translates to bad pay, no benefits, and no raises.

As a side note, that is a horrible raise. Perhaps she should start looking for another job. It's always easier to get a job when you already have one. That being said, I wouldn't expect too large of a raise (or often any raise at all) in such positions, but $0.05 is ridiculous. My first raise was $0.50/hr at a fast food place where I had worked for about six months and had several customers talk to managers about how wonderful my service was.