Given the huge number of methods we can use to get info these days, these accusations by Israel are quite disingenious to me. It goes to show, however, that there are honestly NO TRUE FRIENDS in this world. Considering that the nation of Israel exists today in no small part due to the redistribution of our tax dollars to them through military aid, for them to even make this claim is beyond belief.
This is just one of those incidents that we should all keep in mind for future referene, along with the fact that Israel is China's #2 supplier of weapons - second only to Russia. "Friends". I support Israel completely against the Palis, but they have been less than faithful to us in return.
I certainly hope Condi takes charge of our relationship with Israel and reiterates that there are certain actions that we will not tolerate.
Probably a FRENCH Amethyst or RUBIS.
I doubt it was ours. Our subs can't be detected.
If we assume there was such a vessel in their waters and theat they truly did believe it to be one of ours, what would you have them do?
About the only course left open to them is to protest strenuously, privately. Who's to say that hasn't been done repeatedly before in response to similar events?
They spotted it, gave chase, and publicized it. Seems to me that we probably do execute such missions all over the world, to include in our "allies'" waters and that this is not an unreasonable response.
As to just "asking" for intel. Not in the real world. They spy on us, we spy on them. That's reality.
Don't you think that the sub could have been related to Arafat's funeral? Sort of an extra insurance policy in case something unexpected happened?
My guess is it was French as well, or perhaps Russian.
-Eric
Do you think the country that sent an unauthorized submarine inside Israel's terroritorial waters is their friend ?
Sure we could ... and they might tell us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Or not.
And there's the problem.
Nations don't have friends. Nations have interests. The interests of the United States, and of Israel, are often parallel. But not always.
We don't tell them everything we're doing. Nor should we. So why should we assume that they will tell us everything they're up to?
If we really want to know, there's nothing like finding out for ourselves.
Yeah, right.
This description is the oxymoron of the year.
The Knesset has Anti-American socialists too. They're just out of power at the moment, so like our Dems, they are acting kooky.
Just calm down a bit, eh? :P
NATO is not USA.
Why would you do that? Must be your post above.
"The speed and signature of the submarine were that of an advanced NATO navy vessel,"
A bit of background - our electrical systems are 60 hz, EU's 50hz......if they got a signature it is easy to distiguish who' who's....What I suspect from the articles I've read is that the Israeli's more than likely picked up a mast from land based radar.....it probably was not a periscope (most western navy's dip the scope at frequent intervals to avoid detection) but either an ELINT or RDF mast that they kept up too long - they are wide/tall enough to be picked up...(scopes are small/thin enough which makes them hard pickup due to sea clutter) who ever did it they were either inept in tactics or inexperienced....
You need to learn how to read diplo-speak. Also, search the article for the word "submerged" to note that the sub was at one point on the surface in "hostile" waters, then *think* about who has subs that need to be on the surface rather than always submerged.
"It could very well be that this submarine was American or French, Russian or Italian, who are regular visitors in the Mediterranean sea...If we had attacked the submarine, dozens of American or French sailors would have died unnecessarily. We chose not to destroy the submarine, but rather to chase it away." is hardly an assault on the US. We routinely spy on Israel, satellite surveilance, communication intercepts. I'm not aware of anyone who contends we don't. I can't imagine what we'd be looking for with a sub that we can't find out through other means, but if it turns out to be an American sub, I've no doubt we'll apologize, Israel will accept it, and we'll have another "Israel" story floating around the internet for the next decade.
"Within minutes, the Israel Navy detected the foreign submarine and began tracking the vessel, the sources said. "
This is almost funny - they are saying they know how long the sub was there BEFORE they detected it ...
Not Russian! If it were, I would have heard it from my front porch here in California!!!
"Execute the B-57 Checklist!"
Number one: We have all the advanced intel we need from the air (you cannot imagine).
Number two: We have no need to risk losing a multi-billion dollar submarine and lives for intel we can get from other sources.
I smell the French.
I think it's time to dump Israel. Too bad Johnson turned those planes around in '67.
What total horse shit! It is impossible to indentify the nationality of a submerged submarine without having collected acoustic and other information.