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Free Headline AlertsPosted on 11/17/2004 7:39:54 AM PST by datura
WorldTribune.com: 'Advanced NATO' sub chased from Israeli waters
TEL AVIV – A submarine from a NATO navy was detected entering Israeli territorial waters last week on a reconnaissance mission.
Military sources said the submarine came from what appeared to be a NATO navy that patrols the eastern Mediterranean. The sources said the submarine entered three miles into Israeli territorial waters off the coast of Nahariya before it was detected. The submarine then left Israeli waters, pursued by Israeli ships and helicopters.
"The speed and signature of the submarine were that of an advanced NATO navy vessel," an Israeli military source said. "We are very disturbed by this because this is not the first time that this has happened."
The submarine entered Israeli territorial waters overnight Nov. 10, Middle East Newsline reported. Military sources said the submarine, with its periscope perched above the water, was heading for Haifa, the headquarters of the Israel Navy and the location of refineries and other vital infrastructure.
"It could very well be that this submarine was American or French, Russian or Italian, who are regular visitors in the Mediterranean sea," Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee Yuval Steinitz said. "If we had attacked the submarine, dozens of American or French sailors would have died unnecessarily. We chose not to destroy the submarine, but rather to chase it away."
The sources said the submarine sought to conduct reconnaissance of Israel's vital facilities. They said the submarine probably also intended to intercept electronic signals from the navy and test the response of Israel's military to an intrusion.
Within minutes, the Israel Navy detected the foreign submarine and began tracking the vessel, the sources said. After several hours, the submarine, presumably determining that it had come under Israeli surveillance, submerged and headed west away from the Israeli coast.
At that point, the navy sent fast patrol craft, missile boats and helicopters to intercept the vessel. The search was said to have lasted several hours and the submarine was not found. Later, military sources maintained that the intruding submarine failed to complete its mission.
Several military sources, acknowledging that they did not have sufficient evidence, suggested that the intruding vessel was a U.S. nuclear-powered submarine. They ruled out the possibility that the submarine belonged to Iran or an Arab or Soviet-bloc navy.
The sources said this was not the first time a foreign submarine had entered Israeli territorial waters on an espionage operation. They appeared to rule out the prospect that the submarine had wandered into Israeli territorial waters by accident.
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Given the huge number of methods we can use to get info these days, these accusations by Israel are quite disingenious to me. It goes to show, however, that there are honestly NO TRUE FRIENDS in this world. Considering that the nation of Israel exists today in no small part due to the redistribution of our tax dollars to them through military aid, for them to even make this claim is beyond belief.
This is just one of those incidents that we should all keep in mind for future referene, along with the fact that Israel is China's #2 supplier of weapons - second only to Russia. "Friends". I support Israel completely against the Palis, but they have been less than faithful to us in return.
I certainly hope Condi takes charge of our relationship with Israel and reiterates that there are certain actions that we will not tolerate.
Probably a FRENCH Amethyst or RUBIS.
If it were French, the IDF should've checked the waters carefully for any arms that they may have been dropping off to the Palis.
The audacity to claim the US was spying on them just hit me wrong.
I doubt it was ours. Our subs can't be detected.
If we assume there was such a vessel in their waters and theat they truly did believe it to be one of ours, what would you have them do?
About the only course left open to them is to protest strenuously, privately. Who's to say that hasn't been done repeatedly before in response to similar events?
They spotted it, gave chase, and publicized it. Seems to me that we probably do execute such missions all over the world, to include in our "allies'" waters and that this is not an unreasonable response.
As to just "asking" for intel. Not in the real world. They spy on us, we spy on them. That's reality.
Don't you think that the sub could have been related to Arafat's funeral? Sort of an extra insurance policy in case something unexpected happened?
They wouldn't have mentioned checking for arms unless they found some.
More likely they were looking for spare parts falling off the poor thing just to be certain it wasn't dangerously leaking rads into the water.
However, if it was a Diesel Electric boat, we don't operate any of those.
But France, Germany, Greece, and a handful of others do.
But I'd lay odds on it being a French boat.
Which, the direct quote from a Knesset member asserting that it was a US or French sub, or the publicly available and verified statistics of legal international arms trade?
My guess is it was French as well, or perhaps Russian.
-Eric
My thoughts exactly and France would have had a definite interest in clearing the area.
Do you think the country that sent an unauthorized submarine inside Israel's terroritorial waters is their friend ?
"The audacity to claim the US was spying on them just hit me wrong."
Why should it? We've done it before and they've spied on us before. The USS Liberty was spying on Israel when it came under attack in 67. I don't take any of it personally. It's just the way the world works.
Must have been French because it ran away almost immediatly.
The Aussies have a boat that is virtually undetectable. It is advanced electric technology, but I don't remember much else but they came up in the middle of a group of ships totally unexpected in a joint mission exercise. Very embarassing.
We should be using theirs for spy junk.
DK
Sure we could ... and they might tell us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Or not.
And there's the problem.
Nations don't have friends. Nations have interests. The interests of the United States, and of Israel, are often parallel. But not always.
We don't tell them everything we're doing. Nor should we. So why should we assume that they will tell us everything they're up to?
If we really want to know, there's nothing like finding out for ourselves.
I can't imagine one of our attack subs maneuvering with the periscope surfaced - at least not so that it would be easily observed. As for intercepting of electronic data or communications, we have plenty of airborne assets in the area for that, and for visual information our current satellite coverage of that part of Earth is probably near saturation.
Since the sub was detected visually through use of the periscope I would think French as well.
I'm well aware that espionage takes place among allies as well as enemies. When it takes place among allies, it isn't discussed through the media in an accusatory manner. Something about biting the hand that feeds you.
Yeah, right.
This description is the oxymoron of the year.
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