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Who Were the Greatest Military Commanders (Of All Time) ?

Posted on 11/14/2004 5:23:06 PM PST by Cyropaedia

In light of the upcoming film Alexander (the Great), who in your opinion were actually the greatest military commanders our world has known...?

Mine are Genghis Khan, Alexander, and U.S. Grant.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: milhist; militarycommanders; militaryhistory
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To: Hank All-American
Y'all just knew this would turn into a Lee v. Grant p*ssing match.

I happen to think they were both great generals.

I don't agree with Lee detractors like Connally. His defensive war during the Overland Campaign of May-July 1864 was nothing short of brilliant: anticipating Grant's every move, always matching him in the nick of time, despite the depletion of his officer corps, generally erratic corps commanders, inferior numbers, and a weakening cavalry arm and terrible logistic support from Richmond. Lee had a couple of bad days at Gettysburg, some very bad luck before Antietam and tended at times to place too much trust in questionable senior commanders. But on the whole, his record at the head of the ANV is magnificent. Not overrated.

The knock against Grant...we all know. Superior numbers and logistics, attrition, yadda yaddda yadda. To which I respond: His Vicksburg campaign is considered by many experts to be the most brilliant single offensive campaign of the entire war - yet it's largely forgotten because it wasn't in Virginia. Let us not forget that before Lincoln called Grant East, he had managed the surrender of two entire Confederate field armies and had chased a third clean over the horizon. Grant's effectiveness in Virginia was hampered by being saddled with some incompetent (Butler, Burnside, Ledlie) and lacadaisacal (Smith, Warren) commanders that he didn't have to put up with out West. Opportunities to destroy Lee were repeatedly cast away by bungling by various commanders in 1864. Only Cold Harbor stands out for criticism, both for the assault and also Grant's refusal to ask for a truce to retrieve his wounded.

I'd round out my Civil War Top Five with Jackson, Forrest, and maybe a tossup between Gordon, Sheridan, Longstreet, Jo Shelby and Richard Taylor for the last spot.

Beyond that I'd like to single out Subedei, chief general of Batu Khan during his invasion of Russia and Europe in the 1240's, as one too often overlooked. His campaign essentially conquered a third of Eurasia in just a few years time.

321 posted on 11/14/2004 7:18:06 PM PST by The Iguana
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To: Godebert

Ah! Great! That one is new to me.


322 posted on 11/14/2004 7:18:32 PM PST by jocon307 (Jihad is world wide. Jihad is serious business. We ignore global jihad at our peril.)
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To: vetvetdoug; 4ConservativeJustices; GOPcapitalist; WhowasGustavusFox; archy; ...
Ya'll may want to weigh in.

************

I'll add another to the list. Chief Osceola in the 2nd Seminole Indian Wars. For evading armies, guerilla warfare, and general evasiveness throughout the state of Florida.

The only way Col Jesup caught him was to capture him in a ruse of "peace discussions" under a flag of truce.

A little less-known, def. not the greatest of all-time, but an admirable leader against a greater opponent. Out-gunned, out-manned, but not out-manuevered. Osceola.

323 posted on 11/14/2004 7:22:12 PM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: Arkie2

I assumed the way I'd used commas in that sentence would make it sufficiently clear to most people...


324 posted on 11/14/2004 7:27:14 PM PST by swolf
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To: Cyropaedia

Giuseppe Garibaldi.


325 posted on 11/14/2004 7:27:29 PM PST by snowsislander
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To: Cyropaedia
Matthew B. Ridgeway.
George S. Patton.
George C. Marshall.
Erich von Manstein.
Alexi Brusilov.
Ulysses S. Grant.
William T. Sherman.
Gephard von Blucher.
Augustus von Gneisenau.
Louis Davout.
Napoleon Bonaparte.
Marlborough.
Wallenstein.
Gustavus Adolphus.
Charles the Fifth.
Henry the Second.
Otto the Great.
Charlemagne.
Omar bin Khattab.
Julius Caesar.

I'm ready to give detailed reasons why, for each one.

326 posted on 11/14/2004 7:27:33 PM PST by JasonC
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To: Defiant

Well, I have a friend who pointed out that there was no stirrup in Alexander's time, but Mongol armies had them.

Makes a big difference for cavalry, of course.

Again the problem is people are far more familiar with Alexander than Jenghis Khan or the Mongols.

To this day "Horde" is used to designate a multitude of people, when it actually was a (fairly small) Mongol military unit.

The Mongols were outnumbered in basically every battle they ever fought, often by 2 to 1 or 3 to 1. Thing is those defeated tried the PR move of exaggerating the number of Mongols to make their defeats look less bad.


327 posted on 11/14/2004 7:28:33 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Sen Jack S. Fogbound
Of those, only Caesar and Rommel were outstanding commanders. The others just led winning sides. And Rommel had his drawbacks.
328 posted on 11/14/2004 7:28:57 PM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC

OK, explain Louis Davout.


329 posted on 11/14/2004 7:29:53 PM PST by Arioch7
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To: ReadyNow

Priceless!


330 posted on 11/14/2004 7:30:51 PM PST by chris1 ("Make the other guy die for his country" - George S. Patton Jr.)
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To: PMCarey
There are several causes but if you don't include among them, the desire on the part of the Southern states to protect the institution of slavery and to perpetuate its spread into the territories, you're not being honest.

There is a quite vocal contingent on FR which will basically baldly assert that slavery had NOTHING to do with the Civil War........routinely crack me up. As if the war would have been fought entirely over tariffs or something. It's a ridiculous overreaction to the somewhat inaccurate portrayal of the Civil war as ONLY being about slavery.

331 posted on 11/14/2004 7:31:00 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: jocon307

No, it's true. Bligh was a master seaman, but other than that he was a tyrant and a crook.


332 posted on 11/14/2004 7:31:25 PM PST by Doohickey ("This is a hard and dirty war, but when it's over, nothing will ever be too difficult again.”)
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To: Bombardier
Curtis LeMay

Good choice. He's the one American general that the commies were worried about.

I always liked Andy Jackson. The British have not given us any trouble since the Battle of New Orleans.

333 posted on 11/14/2004 7:31:27 PM PST by Missouri
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To: Blennos
Grant, Napoleon, and Caesar were all great generals. Lee had a good record without being a great general, sorry to say. He had particularly able subordinate commanders, men like Jackson and Longstreet. And he was blessed with a string of untalented opponents. Whenever he faced sound ones, he was unable to overcome the long odds against his side. Like many flashy maneuverist icons, he looked good losing, but that is not enough to make someone an outstanding general.
334 posted on 11/14/2004 7:31:37 PM PST by JasonC
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To: matymac
Patton was a good commander. Hannibal won several impressive victories but could not win a war, and lost his country by losing only once. He was also a profoundly evil man, but that is another matter. Not entirely unrelated, though. There is a reason Italy never gave in to him, no matter how many armies he defeated.
335 posted on 11/14/2004 7:33:21 PM PST by JasonC
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To: ChadGore
Yes well, the opposition was not such as really tests the metal of a great captain. Not in the league. Professional, competent, sure. But greatness is more than that.
336 posted on 11/14/2004 7:34:15 PM PST by JasonC
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To: Cyropaedia

Grant?? Ok... I'll give you he would fight. Heck... He killed more yankees than all the Johnnie Rebs put together. He was the only general Lincoln could find that would fight. The only thing was any and all losses were fine with him.

Real answer... Nathon Bedford Forrest & Georgie Patton


337 posted on 11/14/2004 7:34:31 PM PST by Bubba (So simple... Western Civiliztion or a mud hut... Choose!)
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To: Cyropaedia

Except for his blunders of ego that led to his defeat at Yorktown...I say Cornwallis. He was one of the great military minds of his time.


338 posted on 11/14/2004 7:34:37 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (May the wings of Liberty never lose so much as a feather.)
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To: JasonC
Like many flashy maneuverist icons, he looked good losing,

General Lee was anything but "flashy."

339 posted on 11/14/2004 7:34:39 PM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: Norman Bates
von Manstein was at least as good as Rommel or Guderian.

I've always thought that Marshal Davout was a tactical wizard -- at least on a par with his boss.

Overall, though, its got to be Alexander. The guy excelled tactically, operationally, and strategically. He won on all types of terrain, and showed himself to be a master of siege warfare as well. Plus, he has balls the size of basketballs.

340 posted on 11/14/2004 7:35:18 PM PST by XJarhead
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