Who Were the Greatest Military Commanders (Of All Time) ?

[Cyropaedia]

In light of the upcoming film Alexander (the Great), who in your opinion were actually the greatest military commanders our world has known...?

Mine are Genghis Khan, Alexander, and U.S. Grant.

[jocon307]

"he literally wrote the book on tank warfare: "Achtung-Panzer!" was the name of it."

Now, that's a great title! I love German, it's so, um, IMMEDIATE!

[Verginius Rufus]

Leonidas fought bravely but lost the battle. Miltiades beat the Persians at Marathon in 490 B.C., and Pausanias likewise at Plataea in 479 B.C.

I don't think Arminius has been mentioned yet for his defeat of Varus in A.D. 9.

[Tail Gunner John]

I think Sherman was more than dishonorable in Ga. and the Carolinas. His actions were criminal. Sherman's march to the sea had very little military significance other than to "make Georgia howl". Had the South somehow won I would not be surprised if Sherman would have been hanged for these activities. I think Sherman was more interested in teaching South Carolina a lesson than flanking Lee at Petersburg and ending the war.

[Polybius]

Grant had the decided DISadvantage of having to fight an offensive war against entrenched forces, which usually resulted in a loss ratio of at least 2-1. One of the reasons Grant attacked the way he did was because he knew he could. There were men there to do it. Lee remained in trenches and fought because that's what his men did best.

If Lee only "remained in trenches", the Siege of Richmond would have started in July of 1862 and George B. McClellan would have won the war in the Eastern Theater by the end of that year.

The Seven Days Battle and Chancellorsville were masterpieces of Lee leaving strongly entrenched positions in order to use mobility to rout a larger invading force.

The "Hey-diddle-diddle, straight-up-the-middle" offense substitutes men's lives for generalship.

[asgardshill]

This is a non-partisan thread

It is? So all those rocks being thrown back and forth between the Grant/Lee/War of Nawthun Aggression fans are just figments of my imagination then? ;)

[Ciexyz]

Zhukov

Good choice. The Soviet Army faced an overwhelming situation against the Nazi invaders, but the Soviet lines held.

Time to rewatch "Enemy at the Gates" about snipers in Stalingrad.

[Arkinsaw]

Love him or hate him, Sherman was good at what he did.

He was good at what he did of course, but I don't put him in the same category as Grant. Grant was the key, Sherman was a side player.

If Sherman were eliminated at any point, the Union would still have won the war. If Grant had been elminated at, say Shiloh, the north probably wouldn't have won and would have run out of time. IMO.

[Matttheconservative]

Chesty Puller

Ooh Rah!

[clee1]

I'd have to agree with you, if he ever commanded anything larger than a regiment.

[TFMcGuire]

and bunny killer!

[jocon307]

Wha will be a traitor knave?
Wha can fill a coward's grave?
Wha sae base as be a slave?
Let him turn and flee!

[matymac]

General Holland M. Smith better known as "Howlin' Mad" Smith. Led the Marines at Tarawa, Saipan and Iwo Jima.

Admiral Heihachiro Togo. His defeat of the Russians at Port Arthur was brilliant. Only to be topped by his performance at the battle of Tsushima.

Harry Truman for having the balls to order the dropping of nuclear bombs...saving millions of lives, both American and Japanese.

[maestro]

Walt Disney?

[asgardshill]

For sheer instinctive strategery, Spartacus sure managed to do a lot with a little. So he has to be ranked very high in my book. if you count him as a general.

I was wondering when somebody was going to mention him. If the Salician pirates hadn't jobbed him and if he hadn't listened to the Gauls and Germans in his midst (the French and Germans, get it?) who wanted to stick around and plunder instead of escape across the Alps, he would have escaped from Italy and lived like a satrap for the rest of his life. A mere slave bloodying the nose of the best that Rome could throw at him.

[BushMeister]

I agree with some on this board that Alexander the Great is head-and-shoulders above anyone else. He took the throne at 20, immediately conducted difficult operations to cement his control of much of Greece, and then went on a 22,000 mile rampage of conquest. He had an incredible feel for the flow of battle, a sure instinct as when to strike the crippling blow, and personal courage unequaled among rival commanders.

I recommend Peter Green's "Alexander of Macedon", for those who want to learn about this man, who might have lived the most extraordinary life in human history. A lighter read, with photos of present-day locations, is Michael Woods' "In the Footsteps of Alexander the Great".

Alexander was a ruthless bastard, and caused about 1 million deaths, but we're talking about military prowess, here.

Other great commanders that come to mind are Julius Caesar (for Alesia alone), Wellington, Patton, Hannibal (another amazing story, but he failed to deliver the knockout blow to Rome), and Scipio Africanus.

[stainlessbanner]

I was thinking Spartacus, too.

[TFMcGuire]

Boadicea

[0siris]

Belisarius - I read somewhere that he never suffered a defeat. He was the master of defensive warfare, taking a secure position that the opponent needs, and forcing the enemy to attack you. If Justinian didn't yank him around all over the Mediteranian, and allowed Belisarius to completely conquer either the Western empire or Persia, who knows how world history would have turned out.

Scipio Africanus - our current military strategy in the war on terror isn't much different from Scipio's. Instead of taking on Hannibal in Italy, Scipio insisted on taking the war to Carthage, just like we want to take the war on terrorism to the hotbed of terrorism, the middle east. Change the direction of the Mid-east, you protect yourself from radical Islamic terrorism.

Themistocles - Had the foresight to prepare Greece for the second Persian invasion, at a time when the Greeks were celebrating the victory at Marathon. Built Greece's navy, used disinformation to lead the Persians into the narrow traps of Salamis that destroyed the Persian navy. Without Themistocles, the Persians would have defeated Greece.

Nelson - I forget any specific tactical advances he made, but I remember during the Tripolitan war between the U.S. and North Africa, the barbarians stupidly raided some British boats, and tried to hold the Brits hostage. Nelson had none of this, swung his fleet down to North Africa, and from ashore pounded one of the cities until the Tunisians/Morroccans not only released the hostages but paid Danegeld to Britain instead. Plus, there wouldn't have been a Waterloo if Trafalgar didn't precede it.

Gustavus Adolphus - First standing armies, at least since Rome and/or Sparta. Anyone who knows Adam Smith-onomics recognizes the value of specialized labor, and Adolphus had soldiers who specialized in soldiering, as opposed to men who were blacksmiths or farmers or lords called up from the inefficient economic system of serfdom to fight battles, poorly. Heck, you could see some of the development of capitalism in Gustavus' contributions to the history of warfare.

And although they weren't the "greatest":

Stephen Decatur - One of the leaders in naval revolution in the early 19th Century, speed trumps size.

Orde Wingate - Helped organize the first Israeli fighters in pre-WWII Palestine. He instilled the idea of going to the heart of the enemy when they least suspect it, night raids in the heart of Arab neighborhoods, to destabilize the confidence of the Arabs and create both confidence in one's own men and an aura of invincibility in the eyes of the enemy.

[xone]

bump

[misharu]

Any Navy?