Posted on 11/13/2004 12:26:56 PM PST by WillRain
Calling for assistance from my fellow Heinlein fans here.
I'm an education student (and a Social Science major) who has an assignment which is related to using literature to teach Social Studies.
I'd like to use, for this project, an excerpt from Starship Troopers in which the political philosophy of earning the franchise through a term of service is most concisely described.
Do any of you know of an on-line source that makes reference to these ideas?
In the absence of that, can you specify for me the place in the novel which has the clearest and most concise reference to the ideas (I'm thinking of a passage in which Rico remembers a class in which his instructor described the reasoning behind the service for franchise system). I've read the book a dozen times but I'm having trouble finding the exact passage i want. I'm asking because it strikes me as the sort of think that might have been excerpted on some blog or other somewhere on the net.
Anyone have a suggestion? I'm on a deadline and the project must be completed this weekend.
Thanks in advance.
I have a dear neighbor who thinks Tolkien is demonic too. Someone told her that, so it must be true. I tried to explain, but it went way over her. (I don't mean to sound like a blue stater, but you know what I mean.) Tolkien, you either get it or you don't.
It is a Roman thing. At least them, probably most ancient civs had such a system. Everybody was either military or slave.
I don't think it was your feeble brain. I think it was jump the shark. An earlier poster said Heinlein got loony. As a certified Heinlein fan, I have to say I agree. He really started recycling the same stuff. This criticism does not detract from the wonderful body of work he did create.
I have always enjoyed it. Make sure its the original game not the movie tie-in. It was bad. As for PanzerBlitz in spacesuits, I disagree....more like squad leader with all the beam wepons and HE and gas.
AH and SPI are no more, but, Decision Games and Multiman Publishing are. Decision still publishes Strategy and Tactics, and Multiman Publishers still publishes Advanced Squad Leader and other AH type games. Check out www.consimworld.com for all in wargaming!
Beg to differ. OSC is just an extremely uneven writer.
Some of his stuff is excellent, like the earlier Alvin Maker books, which I thought were extremely original in their use of American folk magic as a backdrop. Ender's Game was also excellent. The later sequels in each series dropped off in quality tremendously.
Some of his writing is just awful, notably the series that retells the Book of Mormon. (Boring enough in the original, but somehow he made it more so.)
You're behind the power curve. Shoulda bought a copy, read it, and did your homework sooner.
"Stranger in a Strange Land was the second, and was revolting."
I love that one. Guess you didn't grok :)
I am really pi$$ed about the way they ruined the movie, "Starship Troopers" as I was hoping more of his books would be turnined into movies. If you have not read the book, you should. The movie is crap.
"Citizen of the Galaxy" as mentioned above is one of the best, but don't forget "The Sixth Column / The Day After Tomorrow."
Heinlein will always be my favorite author.
TANSTAAFL
And for Bucky, he did the best he could.
I might recommend Podkayne of Mars for your niece. But you should read it first and be your own judge.
I must admit I really enjoy about 75% of Number of the Beast (up until they meet Lazarus Long). It's not good Heinlein, but it's very entertaining in a fanwanky kind of way.
When I was younger one of the main attraction in his novels for me was thatboys were boys and girls were girls, and it was a wonderful thing to be a girl. This was lacking in most books written while I was growing up, and Heinlein reaffirmed for me that it was a good thing to be girly.
And yes, I am female ;-)
Young relative must read:
The Star Beast
Red Planet
Tunnel in the Sky
Rocket Ship Galileo
Have Space Suit - Will Travel
The Rolling Stones
These were originally serialized in Boy's Life in the 50's (IIRC). All good books reflecting self/family-reliance and good civic values.
Star Trek's Trouble With Tribbles episode was a blatant rip-off of a sequence involving "flat cats" in The Rolling Stones, also IIRC.
By the end I was praying that Mars would get repeatedly nuked, then sowed with salt, then nuked again.
on the internet (via P2P that shall remain nameless) there are downloadable versions of almost all.
"Under our system, every voter and officeholder is a man who has demonstrated through voluntary and difficult service that he places the welfare of the group ahead of personal advantage.
Karl Marx
"From those with the most ability, to those with the most need."
The two sound eerily familiar and similar.
When I read it I was 10.
I didn't know anything about being sexist, I only knew girls weren't fun to play with because they whined to much.
You want to talk about confused! I read Number of the Beast BEFORE reading any of this other books featuring Lazarus Long!
I think that my favorite moment in that book was at the very end, where Harlan (Ellison) sets a trap for all the literary critics! lol
Mark
Our Historical Franchise REQUIRES the Criteria "Alluded to" in the above Dissertation!
If our Culture can produce Citizens "up to" the people Described in "Starship Troopers," we will Survive.
I've ALWAYS THOUGHT that We--AMERICANS--have been Given a "Legacy" of "Societal Superiocity" which has given us a "LEG UP" on ANY OTHER CULTURE.
WE UNDERSTAND--& have LONG "Lived-By" a Moral Code--that the "Rest of the World" has Long Since Abandoned.
"America" is a SPECIAL PLACE, a Society "Bound By" a "Moral Code" which RESPECTS EACH INDIVIDUAL.
NO Other Culture grants ALL "Individuals" "Equal Respect!!"
HEINLEIN UNDERSTOOD Such a Society as Ours; He ALSO understood that Such a Society as Ours was "at Risk!!"
He Wrote several "Cautionary Tales" about our Current Society to WARN US that the "Attempt to Free the Human Spirit & Intellect" would be BLOCKED!
He Said;-Those who Control Human Endeavor FEAR the Potential of the Human Mind!!
SOMEHOW, we must NEVER let the "Stiflers" restrain the Dreams of our "Best & Brightest!!"
Doc
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