Posted on 11/13/2004 10:26:58 AM PST by kattracks
THE HAGUE, Nov 13 (Reuters) - Selami Aydin's words will comfort many Dutch people if opinion polls are to be believed."I'm thinking of going back to Turkey. Seriously," the 39-year-old Muslim said just a few hundred metres (yards) from the apartment police stormed last Wednesday after a 14-hour siege with suspected Islamic militants. "We're all frightened."
The Netherlands' image as the land of tolerance has been shattered in the two weeks since outspoken filmmaker Theo van Gogh was murdered and a Muslim suspect arrested in the crime.
Since Van Gogh's death on Nov. 2 there have been at least 20 arson attacks on mosques and churches in tit for tat violence.
A Muslim school was damaged by a bomb on Monday, another set ablaze on Tuesday. There have been a number of minor arson attacks on churches and a classroom at a Catholic school in Eindhoven was destroyed by fire on Wednesday.
In the latest suspected arson attack on Saturday, a small mosque in the south was destroyed by fire.
Opinion polls show the majority of Dutch people are uncomfortable with or feel threatened by the presence of foreigners, while support is surging for Geert Wilders, seen as heir to murdered anti-immigration politician Pim Fortuyn.
Aydin's comments are not typical of all Muslims in the working class Laakkwartier district of the Hague, but most are dismayed by the reaction to Van Gogh's death.
Some say racism has been on the rise since Fortuyn's party surged to second in a 2002 election shortly after he was killed by an animal rights activist and has ratcheted up a notch in the past two weeks.
"I think it's got worse," said 18-year-old Dutch-Moroccan Adbelmounir el Idrissi. "I was in a shop the other day and a man butted in the queue. I told him to go to the end. He said: 'Are you going to shoot me if I don't?'"
Others are annoyed that the arrest of Mohammed B., the man accused of killing Van Gogh, and other suspected Islamic radicals has stirred a debate they say is critical of all Muslims, who make up about 6 percent of the Dutch population and are mostly concentrated in cities.
No one interviewed said they condoned the killing of Van Gogh, but many believe his short film "Submission", about violence against women in Islamic society, simply fuelled anti-Muslim sentiment, although few people in the Netherlands actually appear to have seen it.
"If we have an opinion, we might share it with our friends, but putting all this on television does nothing to help. Besides, it's about something that supposedly happens outside the Netherlands," said Dutch-Moroccan Kassim Douiri, 18.
SEARCH FOR HEALING
There is criticism of the government, including Jozias van Aartsen, parliamentary leader of the power-sharing VVD liberals, who said in a parliamentary debate on Thursday seizing militants was task No. 1 and dialogue with mainstream Muslims was second.
In the El Mohsinin mosque's large prayer room, a sermon urges those gathered not to take the law into their own hands.
"The Koran means living together," says 60-year-old Achmed Akasar who arrived from Morocco 36 years ago.
Some Muslims believe the community itself can help to build bridges. One of Germany's largest Muslim groups plans to hold an unprecedented protest against militancy later this month with up to 30,000 demonstrators.
"The Dutch government should organise something like this, but maybe we can do it ourselves. I would join in," said Douiri.
A mosque in the southern town of Den Bosch is encouraging non-Muslims to attend its Eid al-Fitr festival, ending the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan, on Sunday. For most Muslims the festival started on Saturday.
"We'll be offering food and drink and hope people will come to talk and to celebrate," said Deniz Ozkanli, chairman of the Orhan Gazi mosque.
"It's been open in previous years, but this year we really want to reach everyone, so we'll be out with flyers and placards. A lot of people are afraid, but a lot of people also want to talk."
Why can't American's react the same way? I think they've got the right idea. Whatever it takes to make them move back to the Muslim country of their choice, is worth the effort.
They will both say or do anything to get what they want...and then blame the consequences on someone else.
Ostensibly, they say they stayed out of the war on terror out of fear of the terrorist backlash on themselves.
Now the moderates are learning that the true purpose of Islamic terrorists is not just to defeat the West and set up fundamentalist states, but it is also intended to destroy all good or neutral relations between the moderate muslims and their non-muslim neighbors.
When the Japanese attacked the U.S., Japanese Americans streamed into the military, to defend America, and to prove their loyalty. The muslims did no such thing that I have heard, in any significant numbers. And what few muslims did, seem to have loyalty issues... at least the ones you hear about from time to time.
I'm sure many more muslims serve honorably in our military, and I thank them for that. It is those who complain about a backlash, but who don't want to fight the evil that is causing that backlash that I am ranting against.
If muslims as a whole don't rise up to reclaim and redefine their religion, the fundamentalist minority will do that for them. At which point, it will become - convert or die... become a Christian, or we nuke your holy cities. The West hasn't waged Crusade in centuries... not since WWII. Do the moderate muslims really want to see what we've learned in the past 1000 years?
[End rant]
People who have are worried about the long term effects of immigration should think twice about mixing it up with every immigrant they meet. They're contributing to the problem. The people they need to mix it up with are the people they vote for.
"They need to get with the program and start objecting publicy against the Islamofacist movements. They would then get some slack."...
"Some Muslims believe the community itself can help to build bridges. One of Germany's largest Muslim groups plans to hold an unprecedented protest against militancy later this month with up to 30,000 demonstrators."
Looks like some are.
Muslims just don't get it. All over the world, they are murdering Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Godless Chicoms and even a slimeball like Van Gogh. Yet, they consider themselves persecuted when an infidel so much as gives them a dirty look or (GASP!) makes a rude remark. A few empty mosques torched in the middle of night is nothing compared to what they are doing to infidels or even Muslims who don't agree with them.
You would have to catch them first.That means they would have to set stake outs at all the mosques etc.Maybe the dutch police is just adapting the we'll stop the guy running out with a torch approach if we see him that is.
If Islam is so great, show me one Islamic country worth living in.
The one thing I don't understand about the french is they implemented the ban on religious garb in schools,like the headscarf. There has to be a segment of the french population that is starting to read the writing on the wall.
"I think we've met their 'flyers' before."
That's pretty subtle, very good.
It's sad and I hate to say this, but Islam won't change until those within demand that change. Maybe when enough of them start fearing the "infidel" more than they do their own leaders, we'll begin to see those changes.
"The fourth and most recent wave of Muslim immigration has come after 1965, the year President Lyndon Johnson sponsored an immigration bill that repealed the longstanding system of quotas by national origin. Under the new system, preferences went to relatives of U.S. residents and those with special occupational skills needed in the United States. The new law was a signal act in American history, making it possible for the first time since the early part of the 20th century for someone to enter the country regardless of his or her national origin. After 1965, immigration from Western Europe began to decline significantly, with a corresponding growth in the numbers of persons arriving from the Middle East and Asia. In this era more than half of the immigrants to America from these regions have been Muslim."
And the Dutch are worried about a measly 6% of their population?
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/immigrat.htm
Here's a US map with the number of Mosques in each state:
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/images/usmosmap.jpg
I wholeheartedly agree that the Muslim population as a whole, here and abroad, has been waaaaay too zipped-lipped about what the radicals amongst them are up to. And I'm not generally a paranoid-type person.
..."...A mosque in the southern town of Den Bosch is encouraging non-Muslims to attend its Eid al-Fitr festival..."...
This way, the Muslims will get to know who are your extended family members, thereby enabling them to target who to kidnap for ransom.
Islam doesn't permit criticism of itself so Muslims will never get it. The prohibition of criticism seems to lead to a outward focus of blame on the part of all Muslims, for all actions.
Christians and Jews are introspective with regard to guilt and Muslims project it onto non-Muslims .
This is part of what Churchill said about Muslims early in the last century:
"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world..."
I guess UBL didn't share his opinion with his friends...
The Dutch government should organize something like this, but maybe we can do it ourselves.
That's what people are waiting for, retard. While you're silent you're considered to be an ally of the terrorists.
...A lot of people are afraid, but a lot of people also want to talk ...
Then there're two choices: be afraid and go back to where you came from, or speak up and fight against the terrorists that your culture has spawned.
Let's get the Islamic terminology straight, once and for all:
Mosque = Terrorist Barracks
Red Crescent Ambulance = Munitions Supply Truck
Radical Muslim = REAL Muslim who follows the Koran
Moderate Muslim = A Trojan horse who quietly smiles and nods his head at the terrorists
Koran = a call to terror, murder, oppression, slavery, misogyny and backward culture
Infidel = all non Muslims and Muslims who are not on jihad (all doomed to die)
Holy Lands = all lands unfortunate enough to be or ever have been under the heavy yoke of Muslim terror, murder, oppression, slavery, misogyny
Islamic Pride = an insanely jealous hatred for every other culture that has left Islam groveling in its own seventh-century dust.
CAIR = Crying Arabic Islamic Retrogrades
Minaret = Satan's Jukebox - or - Howling Hell Tower
Burkha = Misogynistic Mobile Women's Prison
Muslim Chaplin (U.S. Armed Forces) = Turncoat Brigade Recruiter
Rape = something the guys get to do, especially to those hottie infidel chicks! (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)
Modern Technology = "Huh? Oh yes, that stuff the evil infidels make and maintain for us to use for to kill them."
Allah = the Moon God, whose most important representative here on earth is that meteorite worshiped in Mecca
Little Boys = a man's pleasure machines
Paradise = a giant rape orgy for you - if you die while ruthlessly murdering innocent unsuspecting infidel women and children
U.S. Armed Forces = things to run away from or kill with booby-traps, unless you can take a cheap shot at them and then hide behind women and children or hide in a Mosque.
Christian Church = firewood
Synagogue = firewood
Buddhist Temple = firewood
Hindu Temple = firewood
Confucian Church = firewood
Jewish Restaurant = Bomb Demolition Depot
Holy site = anything Muslim, unlike those giant Buddhist statues in Afghanistan that were precious to Buddhists. “We blew those up real good! Heh, heh!”
Truce = a chance to regroup and kill more infidels later
Liberalism = the societal AIDS virus that stops the infidels from fighting Islam off
The American Democratic Party = The Islamonazi’s best hope to destroy America, the great Satan
...except I would say Allah = Satan/Lucifer/Father of Lies and so on.
I must have missed that part.
5.56mm
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