PRO-LIFE WARNING TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY

A 2004 pro-life thread brought back to life | 11-13-04 | Vicomte13

[cpforlife.org]

PRO-LIFE WARNING TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY

We believe that abortion is infanticide, and that a holocaust of infants is taking place. We do not believe that there is any other issue on Earth that compares with abortion in moral import. And therefore, there is no policy or combination of policies you Republicans can offer, including perfect tax policies, tort reform, and every other thing that is near and dear to Republican hearts, that matters a damn if abortion is overlooked and allowed to slide by.

We know that this issue has to be settled in the Supreme Court, nowhere else. And we know that the opportunity to put new justices on the court comes once in a decade, maybe, and that the current opportunity to alter the complexion of the court is not going to come again for a generation. Therefore, the real possibility exists that abortion can finally be seriously curtailed, soon, by the Supreme Court changing Roe v. Wade or eliminating it...IF, and ONLY IF, we can get pro-life judges on that court.

To do that, we have trusted the Republicans for years. We just came out and voted for you again this time, in unprecedented numbers, because we are not stupid and we know what is at stake. Not just evangelicals either. The religious CATHOLIC vote went Republican in 2004, and they didn't do it because of trade policy or even gay marriage. Their issue is abortion.

And the overriding issue is abortion.

So, if the Republicans allow Senator Specter to get the Chair of the Judiciary Committee and he blocks pro-life nominees, or if the Republicans do not use the nuclear option to override Democrat filibusters of pro-life nominees, THIS TIME there is no place for Republicans to hide. WE KNOW that you have the power, now, because WE just voted to give it to you. We understand that you can block Specter. And we understand the nuclear option.

And therefore, we most certainly will understand that if you allow the pro-life judges to be blocked, that it will be your political CHOICE to have done so. You CAN put pro-life judges on the bench, if you expend a lot of political capital. This will offend some people - a lot of people. And that is the price you HAVE to pay to get our votes next time. You have to be willing to bet the whole house to end infanticide.

If not, we will not vote for you. We won't go running to vote for the Democrats: they're pro-abortion. We won't go out and form a third party: we're not stupid and know that won't work. We'll just stay home, just like we did in 2000. Except that in 2000 it was out of frustration and neglect, and the lack of belief that anything will change. There was no organized campaign to keep the pro-life vote home in 2000.

This time, it's different. We understand the system, and we know that you have the power. And we demand that you use the power straight down the line to fill the high court and the appellate courts with judges who will protect the lives of babies. Period. This is not negotiable. At all. This is why we voted for you. You have nothing with which to bargain with us, and if you screw us, we will stay organized and we will stay home purposely to destroy the Republican party. Because if you do not protect the babies when you have the power to do it, you are no better than the Democrats...and worse, you will have lied to us.

This means, in effect, that all of those things YOU care most about: taxation, immigration, trade and business policy, deregulation - all of those core issues that come as an economic package, are held hostage to our issue: babies. If you will not protect the babies, we will stay home and let the Democrats destroy everything that YOU believe in.

This is called "Chicken". It is called a "Mexican Standoff". And since we are fired up by the certitude that we are doing God's work in defending babies, we cannot be bought, and you cannot win so much as an election for dog catcher in this country without us.

Therefore, the solution is simple and obvious: give us what we voted for you to do. Give us pro-life judges. Use all of your power to do it. Sweep Specter out of the way: is he worth losing all the rest of your agenda? - because we really will stay home and throw the country to the Democrats if you're no better than they are on abortion, just to punish YOU for having betrayed us. When the filibusters come, and they will come, use the nuclear option to override them. That will poison the Senate, yes. So what? We are talking about babies here. And with our votes, militantly mobilized because we are winning, alongside of yours, in 2006 and 2008 and beyond, even if the Senate is poisoned, you will be able to replace it with a more Republican one.

That there is even a debate going on as to what to do with Specter is alarming, but we have had our hearts broken before, so we'll sit and pray and trust President Bush and Senator Frist and the Republicans to do the right thing.

Screw us, though, and we will turn on you and your whole agenda will go down the drain with the blood of the babies you wouldn't put your power on the line to save.

The easy solution, the win-win solution, is to BE as pro-life as you campaigned as being. Just do it.

I apologize for the length of this post. But it needed to be said. The Republicans do not seem to get it. They need to understand that we are more committed to saving babies than we are to the fortunes of the Republican Party. That Specter is still in play demonstrates that too many of them do not take this seriously.

Rather than test us, what you guys should do is simply cave, now, and give us what we want. Do that, and you wont hear from us again - there will be no creeping theocracy in America - because this is about the only religious issue that Catholics and Orthodox and Evangelicals AGREE on.

[Vicomte13]

Well, I started this hairball, so I will tell you what I really want.

I want the party to not let Arlen Specter take that seat, so that he can't block the pro-life, strict constructionist judges that the President will send up.

And if Specter takes the seat, I want the Republicans to prevent him from blocking those judges.

And when the Democrats filibuster, I want the Republicans to use the nuclear option to end those shenanigans and get those nominees a vote, up or down.

That's it. That's all.
Obviously I have a whole pro-life agenda that I would like to see enacted through the political process, once the dead hand of Roe is lifted off of the democracy, but I can tolerate political loss.

What I cannot tolerate is working my heart out for a pro-life party only to have its own internal procedural rules be used to elevate the most hostile pro-choice Senator to a position where he can block everything, with no clear assurances from the leadership that Specter WON'T be allowed to block everything.

This makes me think that I have been duped, and that my pro-choice loyalty to the Republicans makes me little different than a black bloc voter chump for the Democrats, who dutifully votes Democratic every time, and then has everything he believes in systematically ignored by politicians with "other priorities".

Stop Spector and the Republicans will have re-established their pro-life bona fides as far as I am concerned. Failing that, change the Senate filibuster rule on judges and that too will re-establish the Republicans' pro-life bona fides.

I believe that Bush, Cheney, Frist and the leadership ARE pro-life, and that Specter has thrown everyone a flaming blivit full of horse manure. But the leadership's hesitation about slapping him down to reassure us pro-life voters has me thinking that maybe I am just a chump.
I hope not.

I have some confidence that Frist gets it, and that Bush sees the chasm opening here, that they'll balance the interests and decide that one aging, fringe Senator is not worth potentially alienating an important bloc.

That's all I want: No Specter and a rule change.
With those things, I think democracy will eventually work things out.

Others may have different views.

[EternalVigilance]

I'm making use of experience and common sense.

If you care to try and disprove my comments, the burden is on you to come up with data to disprove it.

Use those famous research skills of yours.

And good luck.

[TAdams8591]

I know. I saw them and posted about it many times on this forum.

[Vicomte13]

You:"I trust George W. Bush and Karl Rove; if Specter stays on as chairman, it will be because THEY are satisfied he's working for them. I can live with that."


I WILL live with it, because I trust Bush and Frist too, although I will be on my guard. I will be watching to see if the filibuster rules change on judges, and if Specter is permitted to derail strict constructionist nominations. If not, I expect that the slate of good judges will actually appease the pro-lifers, although we are really going to be slapped in the face, hard, if Specter gets the post, and the Administration and Senate will really need to make some good appointments and get them through.

But if we get Specter, filibusters, and pro-choice justices, I will know that I have been a dupe for believing in the Republican pro-life stance.

Because I trust the men you cite, I will live with Specter if I have to...until he screws us. If that happens, I will assume that Bush, Rove and Frist intended that, because it is so utterly foreseeable.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
I still have hopes that Bush, Rove and Frist are concluding right now that carrying Specter's water here is a pointless expenditure of hard-won political capital. Bush consistently does the right thing, so I am hopeful.

If they do the wrong thing, the results will be just catastrophically demoralizing for the pro-lifers.

[Amelia]

I'm making use of experience and common sense. If you care to try and disprove my comments, the burden is on you to come up with data to disprove it.

I asked if you had any actual numbers, or if it was your opinion.

You've answered my question. Thank you.

[sitetest]

Dear Vicomte13,

Excellent summation.

We "rabid" "extremist" "nutjob" pro-lifers require from the current political circumstances little more than the opportunity to get judges and Supreme Court Justices who are open to the idea that Roe is constitutional crap.

Mr. Specter, who has announced publicly that Roe is "inviolate" (his word, not mine), may not be the individual to make chairman of the committee that oversees these appointments.

If the Republicans won't deliver on overturning Roe now, then we have been duped.


sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear Vicomte13,

Excellent summation.

We "rabid" "extremist" "nutjob" pro-lifers require from the current political circumstances little more than the opportunity to get judges and Supreme Court Justices who are open to the idea that Roe is constitutional crap.

Mr. Specter, who has announced publicly that Roe is "inviolate" (his word, not mine), may not be the individual to make chairman of the committee that oversees these appointments.

If the Republicans won't deliver on overturning Roe now, then we have been duped.


sitetest

[sitetest]

Sorry for the double-post.

[Cold Heat]

Republicans do not respond well to threats and intimidation.

Nor, by the way do I.

I am pro-life, but I'll not ram it down someone else's throat. This is the kind of thing that we do not want in our political base.

Roe will not be overturned any time soon, no matter what the make up of the court, or more importantly who is Attorney General.

The American public is divided on this issue and much progress has been made. This progress has not been the result of threats and intimidation by the religious right or any one else.

It is the result of introspection and gradual social change as it pertains to life, liberty and choices.

You get nothing with threats. You get everything with education and patience.

Failure to do this and this issue will be lost forever.

[ApesForEvolution]

LOL!

40,000,000+ in the last 30-some years, dead only because they could be murdered...yes, whatever is Constitutionally acceptable in our union's and State's Constitutions.

If there is NO LINE in the sand; then why do we fight, why do we press, why have faith?? The time has come to get a grip and free our souls of the culture of abhorent, cowardly and disgusting DEATH of our most precious commodity.

I hearby (if it hasn't been done already) second your proposal!

[ApesForEvolution]

Oh, *BRA-VO!* Hear, HEAR!!

[ScholarWarrior]

Thanks for your comments. Cogent, respectful and well thought through.

While I don't recall Bush articulating a litmus test for pro-life, I categorically agree with you that Specter crossed the line. And he knows it.

I would hope that the President consider appointing Specter to a post that could do no harm, like Ambassador to the UN or Japan.

We need strict Construction Supreme Court Justices. We will need several of them. This President can appoint them and get them confirmed. I am not sure he can do that if they are one issue pro-lifers. He does not have that kind of political capital.

I believe that the pro-life platform IS sincere, just not as focused as many on this thread would be.

Your quote:"As far as your final question...where exactly is the legal line for pro-lifers?...neither I nor anyone else is in a position to answer that. Different pro-lifers have different opinions. "

Yes, but that must change if this change has any hope of success. Our political chances are dependent on making a clear case to the great unwashed, that is, those people who are not activists on either side of this issue. We have to make it black and white.

We can win on partial birth abortion. We will not win on outlawing birth control or creating a Catholic monarchy. We will not win on outlawing abortion in cases of rape and incest. We will not win on outlawing day after pills.

This is a very contentious moral and legal issue and we must make it a clear-cut decision between what it means to vote one way or not.

I can certainly live with your outcomes, but we have to be very, very clear, or the media will eat us for breakfast with this issue.

[Vicomte13]

Obviously it's nuts to say that we deserve to be defeated in the War on Terror, destroyed, or whatever.

Animal spirits are running wild here today. (I blame Specter!)

I think that what the pro-lifers who wrote those things meant is that abortion is an undiluted evil, the blood of the babies cries out, and God is just. Therefore, our country is in peril if we do not stop the practice and atone for the Holocaust of Infants we have permitted. That much is certainly true.

The problem is that once folks get going, when they are angry, they get carried away. I don't really believe anyone when he says in a fit of passion that the US should be destroyed over abortion. What SHOULD happen is that we should repent, mend our ways, and get better. God willing, that will happen.

[ApesForEvolution]

"To the baby, it makes no difference whether its life is 'gouged out' in a clean or a dirty environment."

Oh, brother. That one left a skid mark I can see from here...

[Spiff]

>"At what point do you believe that abortion should be restricted?"

Banned for the third trimester. Severe restrictions after 20-24 weeks, like serious health risk to mother, severe(meaning non-functional deformity like anencephaly) Relatively unrestricted the first 16 weeks, other than parental consent, acknowledgment of options such as adoption, etc.

So, you support abortion up until 16 weeks. At 15 weeks if you extract the DNA from the unborn child and analyze it, you will find that it is Human DNA. Just as you will find at exactly 16 weeks and at 14, 13, 12, and before. At 16 weeks, the child's heart has been beating now for at least 12 weeks and her brain has been functioning for 10 weeks. She has been able to move independently for 9 weeks.

Here is a photo of an unborn child who is at 8 weeks - half of the developmental age at which you think her life should have some protection:

Here is a photo of an unborn child who is right at that 16 week mark:

You say she should begin to be protected somewhat at 16 weeks. I've demonstrated that she is a living, human being before that. Her humanity is undeniable. Was she any less human at 15 weeks? 14 weeks? 13 Weeks? What makes her less human and less deserving of protection as a human being?

[ApesForEvolution]

Me: Abortion is the key issue in every national election in this day in which we live.
You: Thankfully the majority of people in this country are smart enough to know such an opinion is asinine. If every person who is pro-life followed your way of thinking, we'd now have President Kerry and a Congress overwhelmingly controlled by Democrats. Then we could look forward to a Supreme Court controlled by hardcore liberals with maybe Thomas and Scalia the only conservatives left.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

The rock-solid core of the Grand Old Party is constituted of committed pro-lifers. They just won a victory of historic proportions.

Excuse us if we don't take kindly to a bunch of RINOs attempting to rob us of the fruit of that victory: The advancement of a return to a culture that respects innocent human life.

>>>

Bless you for eyes that see and ears that hear.

[katdawg]

"I maintain that the criminal justice system is in place to prevent future crimes crimes, "

Yes, I agree with you there. I think keeping in there for life, instead of killing them, prevents future crimes also. That's all I was saying. I also think these people appeal because, sure they want to fight for their lives instead of give up...But, if you are a Christian, all you have to do is confess your sins and believe in Christ, and you probably get into heaven. Therefore, they are getting the easy way out, if you see it this way. Oh well, everyone has their different opinions, I like the way you posted your comment, thank you. Everyone else seemed to be attacking me when I just wanted other people's opinions. I wasn't trying to attack their viewpoints, so thanks again.

[ApesForEvolution]

Thou Shalt Not Murder BTTT!!!

[O.C. - Old Cracker]

No. Nothing is more important than the murder of our children by those sworn to protect life.

[Hildy]

You show me when and where President Bush said he'd make sure Roe v. Wade would be overturned. I'll be waiting.