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Ga. Evolution Dispute Embarrasses Some (AP says Christians are an embarrassment to society)
AP ^ | 11/11/04 | Kristen Wyatt

Posted on 11/12/2004 4:54:43 AM PST by fr11

ATLANTA - First, Georgia's education chief tried to take the word "evolution" out of the state's science curriculum. Now a suburban Atlanta county is in federal court over textbook stickers that call evolution "a theory, not a fact." Some here worry that Georgia is making itself look like a bunch of rubes or, worse, discrediting its own students.

"People want to project the image that Georgia is a modern state, that we're in the 21st century. Then something like this happens," said Emory University molecular biologist Carlos Moreno.

The federal lawsuit being heard this week in Atlanta concerns whether the constitutional separation of church and state was violated when suburban Cobb County school officials placed the disclaimer stickers in high school biology texts in 2002. The stickers say evolution should be "critically considered."

Some scientists say they are frustrated the issue is still around nearly 80 years since the Scopes Monkey Trial — the historic case heard in neighboring Tennessee over the teaching of evolution instead of the biblical story of creation.

"We're really busy. We have a lot to do. And here we are, having to go through this 19th century argument over and over again," said Sarah Pallas, who teaches biology and neuroscience at Georgia State University in Atlanta.

Moreno and dozens of other science instructors, along with the county superintendent, argued that the stickers only make the state look backward. And high school teacher Wes McCoy worried the issue could tarnish his students.

"I didn't want college admission counselors thinking less of their science educations, thinking they hadn't been taught evolution or something," McCoy testified.

Moreno recalled how, after graduating from Georgia public schools, he headed north to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (news - web sites), only to find that people were less than kind about his educational roots.

"They felt Southerners were not only less well educated, but less intelligent," Moreno said.

Doughnut shop worker Maria Jordan, 48, said her Atlanta customers were shaking their heads over the latest dispute. "Lord, don't we have more important things to worry about?" she asked. "It's just a flat-out embarrassment."

As for what they are saying elsewhere around the country, she said: "Whatever Georgia's getting up north, we're putting it on ourselves."


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Georgia
KEYWORDS: crevolist; lawsuit
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To: PatrickHenry

Good luck. Do you truly think many of the creationists will really take the time to read and learn?


41 posted on 11/12/2004 7:09:35 AM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: fr11
(AP says Christians are an embarrassment to society)

It's not that Christians are an embarrassment to society. It's that creationists are an embarrassment--a deep shame in fact--to Christianity, and a humiliation to the conservative movement in general.

When liberals denounce conservatives as uneducated fools, and point to creationism as evidence, the charge sticks fast.

42 posted on 11/12/2004 7:14:42 AM PST by Physicist
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To: FreedomProtector

> No one has ever observed evolution

EEERRRR. Wrong, but thanks for playing.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html


43 posted on 11/12/2004 7:15:33 AM PST by orionblamblam
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To: FreedomProtector
Odds of FreedomProtector having jumped together all at once from individual atoms = "not much."

But that's not how complicated things actually form, is it? Bad model, bad result. Garbage in, garbage out.

The funny thing is that jumping together all at once from tiny constituent parts isn't the evolutionary model at all. It's the creation model. Yes, it's ridiculous. Even God wouldn't make a bacterium that way.

44 posted on 11/12/2004 7:17:26 AM PST by VadeRetro (A self-reliant conservative citizenry is a better bet than the subjects of an overbearing state. -MS)
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To: RadioAstronomer

> Do you truly think many of the creationists will really take the time to read and learn?

Creationists? Read? Wouldn't bet on it.


45 posted on 11/12/2004 7:17:56 AM PST by orionblamblam
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To: RadioAstronomer

I have to agree - stories like this unfortunately reinforce the worst stereotypes of conservatives.

21st century Atlanta is behaving like 16th century Rome, where christians imprisoned and tortured scientists who dared to say that the earth revolves around the sun.


46 posted on 11/12/2004 7:19:44 AM PST by LSU Engineer
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To: RadioAstronomer
Do you truly think many of the creationists will really take the time to read and learn?

It hasn't happened in the five years I've been doing this.

47 posted on 11/12/2004 7:19:46 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: fr11
Moreno recalled how, after graduating from Georgia public schools, he headed north to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (news - web sites), only to find that people were less than kind about his educational roots.

But Yankees evolved from monkeys so who cares what they think ;o)

48 posted on 11/12/2004 7:19:48 AM PST by 4CJ (Laissez les bon FReeps rouler)
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To: FreedomProtector

Congratulations! You agree with these guys:
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/contemporary/0029.htm


49 posted on 11/12/2004 7:20:37 AM PST by orionblamblam
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To: fr11

I'm going to be extremely pissed off if this Judge deems that placing a sticker in a text book to say Evolution is a Theory not a Fact is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. What the hell kind of protection does the CONSTITUTION provide for the the subject matter in high school text books???


50 posted on 11/12/2004 7:23:03 AM PST by Naspino (Not creative enough to have a tagline.)
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To: Ricanator
Any theory of how the world was created is doomed to remain a theory since it is scientifically unprovable

What makes you say that?

If you desire to have a world view devoid of a spiritual dimension you will gravitate to the theory of evolution or some other theory like it.

Nonsense. The TOE, like every other scientific theory, in no way covers spiritual issues. That's an area that science leaves to priests and rabbis.

After all, he was the only one who was there at the time, thus the only one capable of fulfilling the scientific requirement of observation.

Question for you: If you see footprints in the snow, can you logically conclude that somebody walked through there previously? Following your logic, you can't. Also, following your logic, OJ did not murder his wife and her boyfriend because nobody actually saw him do it.

51 posted on 11/12/2004 7:23:27 AM PST by Modernman (Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. - P.J.)
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To: Sacajaweau
the majority of evolutionary scientists say that while the findings are cool....there is something so grand missing....that evolution simply fails to establish the theory on its own merits.

Codswallop.

52 posted on 11/12/2004 7:24:47 AM PST by Modernman (Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. - P.J.)
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To: momincombatboots
The theory of intelligent design is the only feasible answer.

Please propose an experiment that could theoretically disprove the "theory of intelligent design." For a theory to actually be a theory, there needs to be a theoretical way to disprove the theory.

53 posted on 11/12/2004 7:26:43 AM PST by Modernman (Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. - P.J.)
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To: All
If anyone cares, there are already several threads on this sticker in Georgia:

Suit challenges textbook evolution disclaimers.
ACLU Suing Over "Evolution Is Just A Theory" Warning Sticker On Textbooks.
ACLU Sues Over Evolution Disclaimer.
Court challenge begins in Georgia on evolution.

54 posted on 11/12/2004 7:26:58 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: fr11

I remember in college a text-book giving the exact date that an event happened as something like 400,304,053 years ago. Sure... whatever you say. It must be true or they wouldn't have been so precise.


55 posted on 11/12/2004 7:29:14 AM PST by Naspino (Not creative enough to have a tagline.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
But Yankees evolved from monkeys so who cares what they think ;o)

Yankees evolved from Southerners? (hey, two can play the insult game).

56 posted on 11/12/2004 7:31:47 AM PST by Modernman (Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. - P.J.)
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To: Naspino
I remember in college a text-book giving the exact date that an event happened as something like 400,304,053 years ago. Sure... whatever you say. It must be true or they wouldn't have been so precise.

Sure... whatever you say. It must be true or you wouldn't have been so precise.

57 posted on 11/12/2004 7:34:28 AM PST by balrog666 (Lack of money is the root of all evil.)
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To: Modernman
I am pretty sure that creationists would say that footprints in the snow are not made by chance and thus prove a foot was needed to make them.

Along the same line of thinking, the creationist would say that the design of the foot proves a designer was necessary for the very foot that made that footprint.

Since you have shown that you recognize that a footprint did not get there by random (could have been a fascimile), then I am sure you would know that a foot that made the print is complex enough that it did not get there by accident either.

58 posted on 11/12/2004 7:35:13 AM PST by OriginalIntent (Clinton only fooled the ignorant and the lazy.)
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To: OriginalIntent
I am pretty sure that creationists would say that footprints in the snow are not made by chance and thus prove a foot was needed to make them.

Creationist logic would say that since we did not see the footprints being made, we cannot scientifically conclude that they were made by a person.

59 posted on 11/12/2004 7:41:57 AM PST by Modernman (Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. - P.J.)
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To: Modernman
Creationist logic would say that since we did not see the footprints being made, we cannot scientifically conclude that they were made by a person.

Which would be the correct conclusion to reach, logically.

60 posted on 11/12/2004 7:44:59 AM PST by jwalsh07
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