Holy See joins in pain of Palestinian people for Arafat death [Official Vatican website]

VATICAN CITY, NOV 11, 2004 (VIS) - Upon learning of the death early this morning in a hospital near Paris of Yasser Arafat, 75, president of the Palestinian National Authority, Holy See Press Office Director Joaquin Navarro-Valls made the following statement to journalists:

"The Holy See joins in the pain of the Palestinian people for the death of President Yasser Arafat. He was a leader of great charisma who loved his people and sought to lead them towards national independence. May God welcome in His mercy the soul of the illustrious deceased and give peace to the Holy Land, with two independent and sovereign States, fully reconciled with each other."

Pope John Paul and Yasser Arafat have met 12 times during the Pope's 26-year pontificate. Arafat was received 11 times in the Vatican: the first was on September 15, 1982 and the last time was October 30, 2001. The Palestinian leader and the Holy Father also met in Bethlehem during the pontiff's pilgrimage to the Holy Land in March of 2000.

Yasser Arafat has met with Cardinal Angelo Sodano, secretary of State (1996), with then Archbishop and now Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, secretary for Relations with States (1994 in Tunisia and 1995 in Gaza during a trip to Israel) and with Cardinal Pio Laghi when he visited the Holy Land in 2001.

On October 25, 1994, the Holy See announced that the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the Holy See will exchange representations to be "open channels for continuing the development of mutual relations, understanding and cooperation. ... It was decided to give to the already long-existing and fruitful working contacts a permanent and official character. The Palestine Liberation Organization will, therefore, open an office of representation at the Holy See, with its own director. The apostolic nuncio in Tunisia will be responsible for contacts with the leaders of the Palestine Liberation Organization."

On February 15, 2000, John Paul II received Arafat and a delegation for the signing of a Basic Agreement between the Holy See and the Palestinian Liberation Organization, as the representative of the Palestinian National Authority. At that time the Palestinian leader invited the Pope to Bethlehem. The agreement signed that day dealt with certain juridical questions regarding the presence and activity of the Catholic Church in the territory dependent on the Palestinian Authority.

Try this I found this infor in an online catholic encyclopedia.

At about that time the Catholic church came out with it’s first money making scheme concering the tombs and relics of the Apostles and Prophets. In those days Christians would go on these pilgrimages to holy churches and holy sites. If a church was lucky enough to have a good relic they got offerings from Pilgrims. Anyway the author said that the churches greatest cash-making cow of the era was St. Peter’s tomb in Rome it was so successful that they build a trap door in the tomb the pilgrim would come open the door toss in his offering to St. Peter and then yell what he wanted and then slammed the door shut. If we want to really do the prosperity Gospel right we might consider something like this in our churches. This had a whole lot more pop to it than the old bedpans we pass around.

So old Pope Gregory comes along and he complains that the church is filled with the poor and he wants to expand the churches offering horizon. To he start hobnobbing with some royalty. Finds this king that is laden with sin but has lots of money. So he has an artificer make him a cross shaped vial. The Pope then fills this vial with metal filings and sells the vial to this king for around thousands of gold pieces telling the king that in the vial are filings from the chains of St. Peter. Chains must have been a fashion statement for royalty that year. Pope Gregory tells this king that when he wears this vial he is wearing the actually chains of St. Peter and that these chains completely absolve the wearer of all sin. So he could no doubt go and rape and pillage to his hearts content. Since the 1950’s preachers have been selling little vials of holy water and healing oil and cloth healing strips obviously these people are small minded. So after his first deal Pope Gregory orders a second vial and makes a deal with another king. Probably he saw the first kings dress chains and was jealous. In this vial he puts brass metal filings. If he sells so many sets of chains he could have a problem explaining where he got the stuff from. In this case he tells the second king that in his vial are the filings from the keys of the kingdom that Christ gave St, Peter. And that by wearing this little vial he was also absolved of all past and future sins – So he could now kill and loot with impunity. Now of course we know that Christ gave no metal keys to Peter and that whatever was in those vials could not absolve these men of a single sin, but the king and others believed that. And some bishops went crazy about the notion of their Holy Pope filing down Holy artifacts and selling the stuff to the highest bidder.

Pope Gregory incidently was a 5th century and very early 6th kind og Guy

Infallible holy? Setting righteousness to murderers and thugs -- the utter corruption and dipravity began with Pope Leo.

Now I know that you are a man of character and that you are a logical man being that you are a member of free republic. If John Kerry or any liberal would claim that they were in a line of legal sucession to be president you would demand to see proof. If John Kerry or the DNC said trust us its true you would not be disuaded. And what would you want a document in showing that George washington had signed over or handed over the presidential line to kerry -- you would need to know that washington indeed knew the forbs family and that they had contract where a transfer could be made -- and if this momentous occassion did occur then there should also be a historical record -- you would accept no less of Kerry. The man can only be president for 8 years -- With the claims of the Catholic Church you are talking about resting your soul for all of eternity on what you have been told. -- It would seem that there should be some serious investigative work done to on a fist hand basis see if these things be so.

The cornerstone of the Roman Catholic Church is apostollic sucession.

If you did not know it allready there is only one historian for the first three centuries of church history can you name that man? Eusubius

If the catholic church's theory is true, then the sucession of Peter would have to be the single most important issue in Church history. The establishment of that pedigree line to the first Pope would be listed in an official history just as the geneology of Christ is listed in two Gospels.

If that pedigree is not listed in the only offical history church history -- in Eubius' Ecclesiatical History -- a history I might add that was paid for by the Roman Catholic Church -- then either it could not be found to be documented becasue no such pedigree existed -- or if it could not be found due to lost documents at least a histoical note would have been made of their existance and subsequent loss in that treatise. In reality the entire legacy of Rome and the Pope lies in that one book.

If you are serious about your catholisism you will find that book and read the first four "Books: to find your answer. Its completely your own choice: Men's words or documentation.

In the meantime I want to draw your attention to Clement of Rome one of the all important links in that chain of sucession -- you have been told the Pope is infallible this is a core doctrine it is not optional he either is or isn't and if he is not like with liberals and Kerry the house of cards goes tumbling down and we can not trust other biiger and more far reaching claims they make.

Clement of Rome is claimed to be in that line of sucession yet in his first letter to the Corinthians written in 95 -96 ad letter Clement makes no mention of his office nor his authority. His greeting to the corinthians is as a co-equal -- that in itself should send you strong warning signals

THE Church of God which sojourns at Rome, to the Church of God sojourning at Corinth, to them that are called and sanctified by the will of God, through our Lord Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, from Almighty God through Jesus Christ, be multiplied.

Secondly Clement confesses to a church that has been in Crisis its elders were tossed out by younger members that he has been tardy in responding

Owing, dear brethren, to the sudden and successive calamitous events which have happened to ourselves (At the church of rome), we feel that we have been somewhat tardy in turning our attention to the points respecting which you consulted us;

In this letter Clement clearly misquotes verses

For it is written, "The kind-hearted shall inhabit the land, and the guiltless shall be left upon it, but transgressors shall be destroyed from off the face of it."

And again it saith, "They loved Him with their mouth, and lied to Him with their tongue; but their heart was not right with Him, neither were they faithful in His covenant

He quotes from sources the Catholic Church has never recognized as scripture example: (4) adding, moreover, this gracious declaration Repent O house of Israel, of your iniquity.(5) Say to the children of My people, (Clement quoted this from the Apocrypha of Ezekiel) Though your sins reach from earth to heaven, I and though they be redder(6) than scarlet, and blacker than sackcloth, yet if ye turn to Me with your whole heart, and say, Father ! I will listen to you, as to a holy(7) people.

This is a quote from another book that the roman catholic church never recognized its from the book of enoch -- The sun and moon, with the companies of the stars, roll on in harmony according to His command, within their prescribed limits, and without any deviation. The fruitful earth, according to His will, brings forth food in abundance, at the proper seasons, for man and beast and all the living beings upon it, never hesitating, nor changing any of the ordinances which He has fixed. (Book of Enoch)The unsearchable places of abysses, and the indescribable arrangements of the lower world, are restrained by the same laws. The vast unmeasurable sea, gathered together by His working into various basins,(13) never passes beyond the bounds placed around it, but does as He has commanded.

This verse no scholar knows the book chapter or verse he is quoting here.-- And again it saith, "They loved Him with their mouth, and lied to Him with their tongue; but their heart was not right with Him, neither were they faithful in His covenant

now try this: Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.

Are thse the words of the holy see? Jumbled up incorrect and patently false on the Pheonix? If John Kerry had told this story of the Pheonix on the campaign trail what would you have posted on FR.

Are you willing to risk all of eternity on traditions and words of men.

The Democrats said that the acres of documents on Bill Clinton were all false they blew off every witness -- if you open up the Catholic online encyclopedia and read about the inquistion the french hugeonoughts the anabaptists and even dozens of Roman Catholic Saints that they freely admit to killing themselves only to make them saints once they were dead and posed no more oposition to them.

I work with a roman catholic who is of the order of templars -- I don't recall the exact name of the order the man went to catholic school and a catholic collage and he can recite the slaughters of protestants and apostates his very order was attacked and murdered in france for financial gain. And the pope recently apologised to the eastern orthodix church for the sins the commited when the catholic church under orders from the pope looted the greek orthodox church in constantinopel and left it to be destroyed my the muslim onslaught. The document trail is all there for you reading.

May God bless you and enlighten your heart.

IT's not that it is just full of error the Roman Catholic Church's claim of the line of a sucession from St. Peter is false (I have listed the key source previously in this thread ) and the claim of the Pope's infalibility.

So to make it clear according to their own words and doctrines as to whether Clement of Romes words as one of the men in sucession to St. Peters throne read the following and decide for yourself.

Only in the year 1870, at the First Vatican Council, did Pope Pius IX succeed in turning this teaching into a dogma, in spite of the protest of many Catholics, who even preferred to leave this church and found their own community (of the Old Catholics) than to accept so absurd a dogma. By virtue of the definition of the Vatican Council, the pope is infallible when he, as the pastor and teacher of all Christians, defines or proclaims the truths of the faith "ex cathedra," that is, officially, as the head of the Church.

so in 1870 under pope pius IX this doctrine was pushed through and as Pastor and teacher as this man expresses the truth of the faith he is infallible -- and clement of rome was certainly expressing the truths of the faith as he saw them which are pretty ragged at best. Now if I were to stake my life on this man his infalibility would have to be better than a person who clearly does not even have command of the scripture he is quoting or preaching fables of pheonixs as being the truth.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

There is a written record for all who care to study it. There are writings and historical documents for all to inspect from the first three centuries and when we read them we get a picture of a people that generation by generation were losing their way. And that by the time of the cannon of scriptures the declaring of a pope and a central chuerch in rome -- we have a confession from catholic saint after catholic saint that they had lost the office of Apostle they had lost the office of prophet they had lost the gifts of the spirit and miracles that had once been common place were hardly known -- and a professional preisthood rich in traditions and teachings of men sought to fill that gap that the holy spirit had once heald in the church. In fundamentalist terms the church had backslidden they were lost and they could no longer find their way back to what Christ and the Apostles had taught.

If so then this man made pope would have restored the office of prophet and apostles and restored all the gifts and miracles -- people would have been healed by his shadow as peter, shreds of his cloaks would have healed like paul in the book of Acts. The authority of the pope is like the american dollar, it has no value to it other than what people are willing to ascribe to it.

I agree 100% There is only one true body of Christ.

Behold how good and plesantit is when brethren dwell togethe in unity. The cornerstone of that fellowship is Jesus Christ and our relationship with him.

I seldom use all of never to describe anything but in the case of Church denominations I have to make an exception. All of them are blinded by their own ambitions, by their love for corrupt mammon and their love for the things of the world.

Denominations serve to limit people views of God and the bible by having installed a list of man made rules for bible interpretation and traditions and teachings concerning what you can or can't beleive -- the protestant manual was wriiten in large part in the 1500's by Menno Simons as the denominations fought and split into 2000+ protstant denominations they have carried along with them the doctrines and their traditions from Menno Simons.

The protestant church has more in common with Menno simons an ex catholic priest and the Church of Rome than with Christ and the apostles.

People read the bible like liberals read the constitution --discovering all kinds of things (traditions and interpretations)that are simply not there.

It is the challenge of this hour for us to put asside all that we have heard and return to the Christ of the Gospels and the apostles of Acts and the Epistles.

We need to walk softly before God and humbly confess to our brethren that we don't know all things. We can't give definite answers on every subject and that what was known as common knowledge in the first 2-3 centuries concerning things that Paul spoke of and the extent of the healing and gifts of the spirit, how they conducted church services, the doctrine of the laying of hands, the doctrine of baptisms, the nature of paul's thorn, these things and so much more have been largely lost on us.

Further since paul the apostle Christ has seen fit to not appear to a single church leader catch him up to heaven and teach him all that occured with the disciples for the three and a half years of his ministry. Not a single pope, not a single protestant leader. None can say with full authority walk this way -- this is the way of the Lord.

None has had the witness of the Father bearing them witness with signs and wonders as did Christ and the Apostles.

Anyway I have said enough here.

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