Posted on 11/09/2004 5:15:38 PM PST by M 91 u2 K
WASHINGTON - Rambos they're not - yet.
Hundreds of troops from Iraq's new army that U.S. forces were relying upon to help in taking Fallujah have either failed to show up for the battle or deserted after they arrived.
"I do have reports of Iraqis not making the movement to Fallujah," said Army Gen. George Casey, overall commander of U.S. and coalition troops in Iraq.
In a phone link to the Pentagon, Casey said he could not confirm the accounts of journalists with U.S. forces at Fallujah that more than 300 troops from an Iraqi battalion of 500 deserted.
But without confirming the reports, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said, "One ought to expect from time to time you're going to see this type of thing."
U.S. troops were leading the way into Fallujah, trailed by Iraqi units, Casey said. Iraqi forces took over a hospital and a railway station yesterday after U.S. troops drove off defenders.
Both Rumsfeld and Casey said Iraqi forces performed well in recent fighting in Najaf and other insurgent strongholds, but Rumsfeld said, "There have been incidents when they have not performed so well."
In April, Marines stopped their assault on Fallujah to allow a "Fallujah Brigade" of Iraqis to take control, but the Iraqi force dissolved or went over to the insurgents. Rumsfeld said it was "hard stuff" to develop noncommissioned and junior officers to instill morale and cohesion in new Iraqi troops.
The Iraqis also come under pressure from their ethnic and religious groups to reject cooperation with the Americans.
Iraq's Muslim Clerics Association issued a statement warning Iraqi troops outside Fallujah that "history will record every drop of blood you spill in oppressing the people of your nation."
Casey and Rumsfeld said training Iraqis to provide their own security is the cornerstone of U.S. policy in Iraq. Once the city falls to the coalition, Casey said, U.S. troops will patrol with Iraqis, but the goal is to have "Iraqi security forces take over the presence in Fallujah."
Can't do that until we finish the rest of this BS program.
We take out Syria, isolate Iran, and then we will let them (Iran) try to negotiate for terms or we turn the Israelis loose on them.
Unfortunately it is in our best interests to take these people kicking and screaming into the 21st century. The alternative is more 9-11s, and that is simply not acceptable. It is simply best that we move these people out of feudalism, civilze them, and then form partnerships.
The alternative is a whole lot uglier than that! Moreso for them than for us.
This is now problem number one for the coalition forces and Allawi's interim government.
Train the Iraqis to battalion strength so they can defect to the terrorists?
I'm not sure about the "by nature" part. Of course if I had lived under Saddam's rule for years I might be a bit "timid" also.
I just wonder if they are still trying to really understand the big picture.
Regardless, they have to take the lead. No doubt that the GI's did not anticipate this happening.
Perhaps time to reinforce the "big picture" concept to the "leaders" over there; and that would be "your country - we are leaving - your choice."
LVM
Now you know why the Russians removed the reverse gear in the tanks they sent to Arab countries. We might do better training Arab women for combat.
That's a few hundred out of thousands. Let's not forget how many Iraqis have died while serving, many more then have deserted. I don't consider 300 in a newly formed army to be that bad.
Saddam had the same problem with the Iraqi Regular Army.
Couldn't trust them in the past. Can't trust them now. Can't trust them in the future.
Welcome to FR. I once a string of about 4 double posts in a single thread and then triple posted the apology.
Which Arabs are you talking about? The guys who were drafted into Sadam's army? The guys conscripted by Syria, Egypt, Iran?? Afghanistan?
These guys are side by side (for the most part) with our guys. They are doing something that few if any Arabs have ever done, i.e. fight for their freedom. American guys (including yours truely) complained when we weren't shown all the "love" we felt were were due returning from our overseas tours, but we didn't have to face (some of) our neighbors and friends cursing us, our religious leaders issuing fatwa's for our deaths, and the knowledge that fanatics might go home and murder the family (after raping the women) while I'm on active duty.
If 200 have deserted, that leaves about 5800 who have not, and who are putting their lives on the line next to our guys. I'll condemn as "ragheads" any Muslim who supports Jihad against us, directly or indirectly, and that probably includes about 75% of all Muslims world wide, and maybe 95% of the devout ones. But these new soldiers have made a commitment, are acting courageously if they even show up in uniform on the battlefield.
Cut them some slack. 230 years of tradition doesn't come overnite. The Iraqis will have their patriots too, and they'll produce some fine soldiers, because they have a worthy cause worth fighting for. These hero's will lead, and then others will follow.
SFS
Wow. Well said.
Time to kill any terrorist found in Iraq. Time to hold the elections. Our puppet-guys will win. The Kurdish vote will having meaning. The Sunni-Shiia vote will not.
Then, it will be time to let the Saddam-loving, Jihadist-loving, Sunni-Shiia Iraqi "men" have their Iraq. We should take our manpower, and take our equipment north to Kurdistan and south to Kuwait, and watch the great "MEN" of Iraqi run their Saddam-less country.
Prediction--In 3 months, Saddam or another Saddam will be back. Then the brave Iraqi "men" will be crying again.
Nicely said.
Well me? I've never made a double post.
Well me? I've never made a double post.
Well me? I've never made a double post.
Great post. Thanks.
It's amazing what some Freepers will believe from the MSM.
Anyway, all the praise in the world for the majority of the 2K Iraqi troops who helped take Fallujah.
What if their freedom contradicts our Interests???
It really was wrong that people who killed American Soldiers were granted Amnesty!
Our Soldiers dont sign up to defend the freedom on Iraq, but our Freedom!
Fallujah should be bombed into submission then bulldozers and tanks be sent in to crush whatever is left. It is harsh, but if you dont like that then dont go to war in the first place. Sheesh What happen to tough Conservatives it seems many of you have become Dreamy Wilsonian idealists who are in never never land!
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