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A Blue City (Disconsolate, Even) Bewildered by a Red America
New York Times ^ | Nov 4, 2004 | Joseph Berger

Posted on 11/04/2004 5:37:57 AM PST by publius1

A Blue City (Disconsolate, Even) Bewildered by a Red America By JOSEPH BERGER

Published: November 4, 2004

Striking a characteristic New York pose near Lincoln Center yesterday, Beverly Camhe clutched three morning newspapers to her chest while balancing a large latte and talked about how disconsolate she was to realize that not only had her candidate, John Kerry, lost but that she and her city were so out of step with the rest of the country.

"Do you know how I described New York to my European friends?" she said. "New York is an island off the coast of Europe."

Like Ms. Camhe, a film producer, three of every four voters in New York City gave Mr. Kerry their vote, a starkly different choice from the rest of the nation. So they awoke yesterday with something of a woozy existential hangover and had to confront once again how much of a 51st State they are, different in their sensibilities, lifestyles and polyglot texture from most of America. The election seemed to reverse the perspective of the famous Saul Steinberg cartoon, with much of the land mass of America now in the foreground and New York a tiny, distant and irrelevant dot.

Some New Yorkers, like Meredith Hackett, a 25-year-old barmaid in Brooklyn, said they didn't even know any people who had voted for President Bush. (In both Manhattan and the Bronx, Mr. Bush received 16.7 percent of the vote.) Others spoke of a feeling of isolation from their fellow Americans, a sense that perhaps Middle America doesn't care as much about New York and its animating concerns as it seemed to in the weeks immediately after the attack on the World Trade Center.

"Everybody seems to hate us these days," said Zito Joseph, a 63-year-old retired psychiatrist. "None of the people who are likely to be hit by a terrorist attack voted for Bush. But the heartland people seemed to be saying, 'We're not affected by it if there would be another terrorist attack.' "

City residents talked about this chasm between outlooks with characteristic New York bluntness.

Dr. Joseph, a bearded, broad-shouldered man with silken gray hair, was sharing coffee and cigarettes with his fellow dog walker, Roberta Kimmel Cohn, at an outdoor table outside the hole-in-the-wall Breadsoul Cafe near Lincoln Center. The site was almost a cliché corner of cosmopolitan Manhattan, with a newsstand next door selling French and Italian newspapers and, a bit farther down, the Lincoln Plaza theater showing foreign movies.

"I'm saddened by what I feel is the obtuseness and shortsightedness of a good part of the country - the heartland," Dr. Joseph said. "This kind of redneck, shoot-from-the-hip mentality and a very concrete interpretation of religion is prevalent in Bush country - in the heartland."

"New Yorkers are more sophisticated and at a level of consciousness where we realize we have to think of globalization, of one mankind, that what's going to injure masses of people is not good for us," he said.

His friend, Ms. Cohn, a native of Wisconsin who deals in art, contended that New Yorkers were not as fooled by Mr. Bush's statements as other Americans might be. "New Yorkers are savvy," she said. "We have street smarts. Whereas people in the Midwest are more influenced by what their friends say."

"They're very 1950's," she said of Midwesterners. "When I go back there, I feel I'm in a time warp."

Dr. Joseph acknowledged that such attitudes could feed into the perception that New Yorkers are cultural elitists, but he didn't apologize for it.

"People who are more competitive and proficient at what they do tend to gravitate toward cities," he said.

Like those in the rest of the country, New Yorkers stayed up late watching the results, and some went to bed with a glimmer of hope that Mr. Kerry might yet find victory in some fortuitous combination of battleground states. But they awoke to reality. Some politically conscious children were disheartened - or sleepy - enough to ask parents if they could stay home. But even grownups were unnerved.

"To paraphrase our current president, I'm in shock and awe," said Keithe Sales, a 58-year-old former publishing administrator walking a dog near Central Park. He said he and friends shared a feeling of "disempowerment" as a result of the country's choice of President Bush. "There is a feeling of 'What do I have to do to get this man out of office?'''

In downtown Brooklyn, J. J. Murphy, 34, a teacher, said that Mr. Kerry's loss underscored the geographic divide between the Northeast and the rest of the country. He harked back to Reconstruction to help explain his point.

"One thing Clinton and Gore had going for them was they were from the South," he said. "There's a lot of resentment toward the Northeast carpetbagger stereotype, and Kerry fit right in to that."

Mr. Murphy said he understood why Mr. Bush appealed to Southerners in a way that he did not appeal to New Yorkers.

"Even though Bush isn't one of them - he's a son of privilege - he comes off as just a good old boy," Mr. Murphy said.

Pondering the disparity, Bret Adams, a 33-year-old computer network administrator in Rego Park, Queens, said, "I think a lot of the country sees New York as a wild and crazy place, where these things like the war protests happen."

Ms. Camhe, the film producer, frequents Elaine's restaurant with friends and spends many mornings on a bench in Central Park talking politics with homeless people with whom she's become acquainted. She spent part of Tuesday knocking on doors in Pennsylvania to rustle up Kerry votes then returned to Manhattan to attend an election-night party thrown by Miramax's chairman, Harvey Weinstein, at The Palm. Ms. Camhe was also up much of the night talking to a son in California who was depressed at the election results.

When it became clear yesterday morning that the outlook for a Kerry squeaker was a mirage, she was unable to eat breakfast. Her doorman on Central Park West gave her a consoling hug. Then a friend buying coffee along with her said she had just heard a report on television that Mr. Kerry had conceded and tears welled in Ms. Camhe's eyes.

Ms. Camhe explained the habits and beliefs of those dwelling in the heartland like an anthropologist.

"What's different about New York City is it tends to bring people together and so we can't ignore each others' dreams and values and it creates a much more inclusive consciousness," she said. "When you're in a more isolated environment, you're more susceptible to some ideology that's imposed on you."

As an example, Ms. Camhe offered the different attitudes New Yorkers may have about social issues like gay marriage.

"We live in this marvelous diversity where we actually have gay neighbors," she said. "They're not some vilified unknown. They're our neighbors."

But she said that a dichotomy of outlooks was bad for the country.

"If the heartland feels so alienated from us, then it behooves us to wrap our arms around the heartland," she said. "We need to bring our way of life, which is honoring diversity and having compassion for people with different lifestyles, on a trip around the country."

Michael Brick and Brian McDonald contributed reporting for this article.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy; Political Humor/Cartoons; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bluezone; kerrydefeat; liberals; stillclueless
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To: chris1

That's true, and very helpful. But I'm talking about on another level. Most people live their lives as conservatives, (their values, their finances, their home life) but many tend to vote liberal without realizing what they are really voting for. I know of so many who vote for the democrat party because they still think of it as the old Roosevelt party not what it has become. Most people are not involved or interested in politics until time to vote, then are mislead by hearsay, campaign promises that are only that, or vote uninformed from habit.


181 posted on 11/04/2004 10:38:02 AM PST by TexasTaysor
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To: publius1
Sorry to all wonderful New York freepers, but people like this who do nothing but insult the rest of the world have just worn me out.

I don't care what they think any more than I care about the French.

New York (not you guys) needs to get over itself.
182 posted on 11/04/2004 10:42:52 AM PST by texasflower (Liberty can change habits. ~ President George W. Bush 10/08/04)
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To: katnip

Is there a website with the precinct by precinct vote for PA?


183 posted on 11/04/2004 10:55:16 AM PST by Keme (Bush Contra Mundum)
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To: correctthought
It's always been my perception that the influx of NY'ers ruined the state that I was born in.

I had this same sort of experience just recently.

I grew up near Spring Green, WI. When I was there, it was a conservative rural area. Bedrock conservative values is how I remember it.

I was involved with a friend's wedding last weekend and it was held in Spring Green. I spent some of my free time driving around the area and was sickened by the amount of sKerry/Deadwards signs I saw. I picked up the local paper and saw some ads placed by libs trying to rally the people to support sKerry. I also saw stories of Bush/Cheny signs being vandalized and I even observed some myself. After doing some research I confirmed my suspicions about the reasons for the political changes I noticed: Spring Green has turned into an art and crafts hotbed, with a lot of transplants from Madison and Chicago. They have infiltrated the area and (in my opinion) poisoned it. It bugs the cr@p out of me when libs ruin one area, move to another to escape the results of thier policies, and then try to implement the same things there.

The reason Spring Green, WI was nice in the first place was thier conservative values. Now these are all but gone.

I pray for Spring Green, my state, and my country.
184 posted on 11/04/2004 11:27:06 AM PST by BlueMondaySkipper (The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it. - George Orwell)
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To: publius1

bump


185 posted on 11/04/2004 11:29:48 AM PST by VOA
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To: NYC GOP Chick
Suffolk was 48.7/48.3. It was pretty darn close.
186 posted on 11/04/2004 11:41:53 AM PST by CaptainK
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To: Kerfuffle

>"We live in this marvelous diversity where we actually have gay neighbors," she said. "They're not some vilified unknown. They're our neighbors."<

And her point? One of my childhood friends is a lesbian. We were even neighbors a few years back. I have no intention of ending our friendship any time soon.

Believe me, I'd much prefer having a gay, SOUTHERN neighbor than an uppity, condescending, horse's butt of a Noo Yooah Kah.

It's astounding that after 9/11, after our flyover sons and daughters stepped up to the plate to go after the fiends that brought the twin towers crashing down, these people STILL have not the first clue what we are up against.

The sad thing is, should the worst happen, and should New York get attacked again, the rest of America will repeat their outreach to the ungrateful wretches like this latte-swilling elitist.


187 posted on 11/04/2004 11:44:12 AM PST by Darnright
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To: chris1

Great vanity, Chris. You should put your Freeper's Tale on your FR homepage. :)


188 posted on 11/04/2004 11:46:39 AM PST by NetSurfer (All your provisional ballots are belong to us.)
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To: NetSurfer

I hope to make one more detailed than this because I am sure I left out some good stuff.


189 posted on 11/04/2004 11:54:13 AM PST by chris1 ("Make the other guy die for his country" - George S. Patton Jr.)
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To: NYC GOP Chick
Newsday ran a town by town results page (read it at the diner, then put it back). Hempstead, Freeport, Long Beach, Westbury, Roosevelt; the most densely populated and most heavily minority towns, went Kerry as did the Gold Coast which is heavily secular Jewish. The South Shore and middle island went Bush.

In Suffolk the North Shore and the South Fork were solid Kerry as were the black towns. The rest was a mix. My town was 60% Bush.

190 posted on 11/04/2004 12:22:03 PM PST by wtc911 (W will win because God still loves America)
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To: NYC GOP Chick
I read that trash yesterday.

After I read that, I had to go put on my wifebeater shirt, a camoflaugue hat, grow a ZZ Top beard, go out to my pick with a gun rack, take the muffler off of it, drink some cans of Pabst Blue Ribbon, throw them up into the air and shoot them afterward, burn some crosses, bash gays, and talk about the "good ole days". /sarcasm (Ann Arbor/New York/Ferndale attack on us)

That's their stereotype of us anyway.

They'll probably be surprised to know that many of us "rednecks and hicks" actually have college degrees. Most of all also have friends who are of other races and ethnicies....who happen to also live here in flyover country.

I just call them what they call us. Extremely ignorant and uneducated fools.

191 posted on 11/04/2004 12:47:44 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("No time for losers, cause we are the champions...of the world!!!")
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To: Keme
I don't know if every county has this info on the web but I imagine they would. I did a google on Lehigh County election results and got the results by precincts here...

www.lehighcounty.org

192 posted on 11/04/2004 1:35:38 PM PST by katnip (Defeating John Kerry is like giving Vietnam Veterans the Homecoming they never had)
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To: katnip

Thanks! I thought it was buried somewhere on the state website.


193 posted on 11/04/2004 2:00:18 PM PST by Keme (Bush Contra Mundum)
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To: Keme
Sorry, I gave you the election result page from the Primaries LOL. Here's the General election...

Lehigh county election results

194 posted on 11/04/2004 2:04:47 PM PST by katnip (Defeating John Kerry is like giving Vietnam Veterans the Homecoming they never had)
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To: surfatsixty

"We turned out in droves, despite knowing the Electoral Vote futility of it, to help win the popular vote for GWB."

Good point. That is important.


195 posted on 11/04/2004 2:19:45 PM PST by webstersII
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To: Silent major
Silent Major; I'm honored to be the recipient of your first post, actually a little humbled. You made an intelligent and eloquent reply to what was basically a smart-a&& remark I posted while still euphoric and a little sleep deprived after the election. Welcome to FreeRepublic. You inspire me to raise my standards in the future.
196 posted on 11/04/2004 5:43:42 PM PST by CrazyIvan (What's the difference between Joseph Goebbels and Michael Moore? About 150 pounds.)
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To: wtc911
Newsday ran a town by town results page (read it at the diner, then put it back). Hempstead, Freeport, Long Beach, Westbury, Roosevelt; the most densely populated and most heavily minority towns, went Kerry as did the Gold Coast which is heavily secular Jewish. The South Shore and middle island went Bush.

Very interesting breakdown, thanks! I figured that about Hempstead and the others you listed, although I'm kind of surprised by Westbury.

What do you mean by "South Shore"? Surely not the Five Towns -- even more secular Jewish than the North Shore.

I remember when the Garden City/Mineola area turned left: around the time Carolyn "My Husband Was Shot on the Train" McCarthy was first elected.

197 posted on 11/04/2004 6:30:32 PM PST by NYC GOP Chick (Kerry has more positions than the Kama Sutra)
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To: Dan from Michigan
I just call them what they call us. Extremely ignorant and uneducated fools.

Of course they are! And the funniest is how they think they're *so* superior to us. As I've been saying, I mingle and move amongst them and hear every vile word they say about us. Party of Tolerance, my ass.

198 posted on 11/04/2004 6:32:10 PM PST by NYC GOP Chick (Kerry has more positions than the Kama Sutra)
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To: valkyrieanne
Spent some time in Bridgeport today. THEY JUST *DON'T* GET IT.

I dropped off something at a famous lefty charity site. This woman (who was quite attractive, with her little scarf draped fashionably around her shoulders) looked at me like I was a parasite (I OWN the company), and turned back to the friend she was talking to and continued her diatribe about how STUPID the people of this country are, and how we just can't seem to get it right.

So sometimes looks can be right on.

199 posted on 11/04/2004 7:15:28 PM PST by ModernDayCato
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To: NYC GOP Chick

South Shore never really meant the Five Towns. Merrick, Bellmore, Wantagh, Seaford, Massapequa and Massapequa Park in Nassau and Amityville through Patchogue in Suffolk. Rock solid people with conservative values, albeit tinged with a certain degree of liberalism by exposure to the NYC rings of hell.


200 posted on 11/05/2004 5:49:02 AM PST by wtc911 (W will win because God still loves America)
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