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I have gotten a surprising number of responses from people in this thread. Obviously this is a very contentious issue that is splitting the Conservative community. In my opinion, this is also an issue that is demagogued for political advantage by both parties and they are both dead wrong.

First of all, personal stories are always illustrative, and there are a lot of very interesting ones on this thread, but we have to keep in mind that at any given time economic conditions can be good and bad in different areas of the country.

Secondly, this IS a free trade issue. Free trade benefits everyone. Why is this a free trade issue? Because government is standing in the way of economic freedom and preventing private enterprise from hiring who they wish. Remember Adam Smith’s golden rule: an economic transaction will not take place unless both parties benefit from it.

Thirdly, I understand that having more high tech workers COULD lower wages for SOME American high tech workers. People on this thread have been writing like this is a certainty. Not true. What might happen is that an American Engineer hires some of the foreign Engineers to work FOR him and then the American worker/company makes a higher salary then before because their business is more competitive and/or the American Engineer has more supervisory responsibility.

Fourthly, the American consumer gains big, which helps spur economic growth. Prices will fall for a product or service, which in turn cut costs in other areas. All other industries and consumers benefit from this.

Fifthly, Foreign investment is encouraged. Why move a company to a country (US) where the cost of your high tech workers is sky high? Why build a Toyota plant here, when you can build one in China and pay your high tech workers less? As President Bush said at the Republican Convention, "American needs to be the best place to do business in the world". That means companies that come here need to have the best hiring options available to them.

Sixthly, American companies become more competitive globally. If a company can lower costs 10% by hiring cheaper engineers, then maybe they can boost exports 40% and hire even more workers then they would have without this ability to hire. Also, these talented workers are with US companies instead of with US competitors. Furthermore, American companies might be more tempted to outsource overseas if they can save big on labor costs in these areas… The more savings they can get here the less likely they are to outsource. Now let's stop for a second, aren’t you all against outsourcing?!?!?

Seventhly, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe many of these foreign workers use this first step as a stepping-stone to citizen ship. I think it either speeds the process up, or makes the success of their application more likely, especially if they continue to work for the company here in the US. Bringing these productive, hard working, knowledgeable people under the American flag can only advance our nation and our economic strength. We are a nation of immigrants and we should not forget that. Currently the brain drain flows TO the US. Let's keep it that way.

Finally, all you people who are sooooo upset about this are almost reacting just like liberals: with pure emotion. Take a step back and look at what is actually happening. It is a win-win-win-win situation. Like liberals, politicians who rail against free trade are doing so for purely political reasons. They are doing it to get elected. In reality, it is atrocious policy. It is disturbing to me that so many 'Conservatives' are against something that is such a benefit to the American economy.

Free Trade IS a conservative idea. Reagan was a HUGE free trader (although like Bush Jr I believe he made some exceptions out of political necessity). Clinton passed NAFTA against a lot of objection in his own party (and some conservatives like Buchanon and the Perot crowd). NAFTA has been a huge success. The doom and gloom crowd were dead wrong about it. Now, Kerry is talking about ‘fair trade’ and ‘environmental’ and ‘labor standards’, which is code signifying his intention to use government to skew the goodies towards his special interest contributors.

Let's not turn back to the failed policies of the past. We need to unite Conservatives around this issue.

NAFTA has been a huge success.

Sure it has --- the national debt has never been higher, Texas and California are facing almost impossible state budget deficits, the number of impoverished people is growing at about 1 million/year. Immigration from Mexico is at previously unimaginable rates. The regions along the Mexican border are in economic disaster and require billions of dollars in federal relief. The recent elections in Mexico showed them making a sharp turn to the leftist parties and the violent crime rate is skyrocketing. How many NAFTA displaced workers are still living off government programs like NAFTA-TAA, Medicaid, food stamps, housing subsidies, free job retraining? It's been a huge success for a very few.

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,39028,00.html

"It is no wonder that many doctors feel the lure of the US these days.

There was a net migration of 49 neurosurgeons from Canada from 1996 to 2002, said the Canadian Institute for Health Information - a large loss, since there are only 241 neurosurgeons in the country."

---
Lesson learned: Good for us and Bad for Canada. Let's keep it up. I don't see Neurosurgeon salaries dropping. The more government meddles and restricts the more people flee and the more the economy stagnates.

I appreciate your well thought out response. It is true that this issue is a definitive wedge issue which can divide conservatives.

But my concerns are that in the propaganda war that is being waged, terms are being used interchangeably and have been generalized and diluted of their true, historical significance.

One instance of this is H1b /L1, and the fact that its proponents try very cleverly to tie this in with the issues of immigration. These are two distinct issues. H1b and other guest workers are by definition temporary. There is no attempt to assimilate these workers into the society at large. If you talk to people who have direct experience, they will tell you that these people are most times completely isolated, living together in sparse surroundings, most working long hours. Why are they doing this...well partly the prestige, but mostly to gain the knowledge and training they will later take back to their native countries...thus transferring the comparative advantage.

Another issue is the lumping in of H1b / L1 guest visas with "free trade". This thread was about guest worker visas, you have responded by arguing a different point, namely the advantages of free trade.

Free trade is one of those idealized philoshopical terms like "free love" from the sixties. (Problem was, it wasn't love, and it wasn't free). Like its namesake, it is used to justify what Ill term short term economically promiscuous behavior, all with the benefit supposedly to be accrued later to the population as a whole. Im all in favor of free trade which gives, (as Ricardo spoke of comparative advantage) a TRUE long term comparative advantage to the United States.

Now as a business owner I could very well hire H1b workers if I was willing to deal with one firms such as Tata or many others which are springing up lately. But I will not do so, as I see it as harmful to the engineering profession in the US in the long term.

Without a viable engineering profession, with US citizen engineers holding SECURITY CLEARANCES, we will not be able to design, build, and test the next generation of weapons systems and defense systems.

I want my fellow Americans to kick butt in the world on ALL levels, not just as soldiers on the battlefield. Frankly, I don't worry about the economic health of other nations and their citizens, and I make no apologies for this attitude. I want the US to reign supreme in all matters economic, with Americans building the high tech marvels we were once renowned for. Selling a high tech product designed and built in USA to the global market is what Im striving for. Funny, but this is what the engineers in other countries feel...there IS a sense of national pride...and thats as it should be.

I worked on an IRD project for the first Star Wars program back in the 80's. We couldn't quite pull it off then...the technology just wasnt there. Now its possible. In 10-20 years...it may not be possible to keep ahead of India, China, or other countries in designing and building the latest hi-tech wonders.

We are not simply a collection of individual businesses in the US, we are also part of a complex, interrelated infrastructure. We cannot keep a healthy society if we exclude large segments of jobs from native born Americans or American citizens. Thats not a liberal statement..it is a fact of life.

Bull... Free Trade is a scam! The very notion one must be Free Trade to be conservative is a flat out lie! One that anyone who's seriously thought about it cannot contend it remotely in the best interest of the nation.

"Free" trade is a huge scam, always has been always will be. It undermines national sovereignty, places greed before sound long term fiscal policy and frankly props up despotic and authoritative regimes. It is absolutely UNCONSCIONABLE that a nation that uses political prisoners as slave labor can import goods to the United States, let alone do it Duty Free!

Trade should be bilateral agreements between nations, and the US should be using its position of strength in this area to require second and third teir nations to improve themselves in order to get access to our markets. If Uganda or some other 3rd world nation with a corrupt governmental system wishes access to our markets, we should use that access to force them to improve their nation, private property laws, a seperate judiciary, and accountable government, freedom of the press and increase their ability to bring in trade accordingly.

I have nothing against sharing the wealth in terms of international trade, or building up future consumer bases around the world by it, but our goal must be to not only allow money to flow to these nations... because if that's all it is, you will wind up with more despots who live even higher than they already are off the backs of their people and the labor they produce.

Free Trade is the absolutely greatest bald face lie EVER perpetrated on the american people... it is even worse than the Federal Reserve Act!

First... economic conditions can be good and bad in different areas...

True.

Secondly, this IS a free trade issue.

It absolutely IS NOT a free trade. People and Jobs cannot be traded among countries in the same way wheat and coffee are. The only way to make this a "free trade" issue is to subscribe to the view that employees are human capital, not human resources. Doing so is tantamount to declaring slavery to be permissible as a "free trade" issue as well - and that's a debate we ended in this country a few hundred years ago.

Thirdly, ... an American Engineer hires some of the foreign Engineers to work FOR him ...

Most likely the American engineer won't have the opportunity. Offshore companies will run him into the ground - "management" is cheaper there too. He will be in the same boat as all the American engineers he chose not to hire.

Fourthly, the American consumer gains big,

If the American consumer does not have money to spend because he has no job, this is a moot point.

Fifthly, Foreign investment is encouraged.

You actually thing this is a good thing? I am extremely uncomfortable with any policy that, at it's core, maintains that increasing foreign ownership of assets in the USA is a good thing!

We are not a third-world country, and we don't need inflows of foreign capital to "develop" our economy. Encouraging foreign investments here is selling our country out from beneath us.

Sixthly, ... If a company can lower costs 10% by hiring cheaper engineers, then maybe they can boost exports 40%...

Maybe the company could boost compensation by 10%, and in turn receive a 40% increase in productivity from it's staff? The Suits never try that.outside of the CxO suites.

The more savings they can get here the less likely they are to outsource.

So American workers should work for the same wages as people in third-world hellholes, to avoid having their jobs shipped overseas to aforementioned hellholes? Insane.

Finally, all you people who are sooooo upset about this are almost reacting just like liberals...

No, we are reacting like conservative populists. We are reacting like the founders of this country, who put America and her needs above those of the rest of the world, and certainly would not sacrifice Americans for the almighty dollar at the altar of Free Trade.

Free Trade IS a conservative idea.

Free Trade may be a conservative idea. The idea that you can trade in people the way you would in goods and services absolutely is not, and that's what everyone who claims that offshoring and H1B are "Free Trade" issues implicitly admits.

Reagan was a HUGE free trader (although like Bush Jr I believe he made some exceptions out of political necessity).

Ronald Reagan always placed America First! in his priorities.

THE REAGAN RECORD ON TRADE: RHETORIC VS. REALITY

NAFTA has been so successful the "coyotes" who smuggle the poor of Mexico have raised their rates to what the market can now afford. ICE buddies advise the going rate was $500 ten years ago, now runs $2000.

Free Trade IS a conservative idea.

Wrong.

Reagan was a HUGE free trader

Not precisely (he instituted a plethora of quotas and other barriers), and to the extent he was, he never did fully shake the FDR dogma he had been indoctrinated with.