Posted on 09/30/2004 5:57:19 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
Thread 1 - Pre-Debate discussion
Can anyone tell me what specifically would Kerry do as President? What is his policy for Iraq, N. Korea, Russia, Iran, nuclear proliferation, do you know what his stance on Iraq is? I didn't get a single clue as to what HE would DO in any of these cases, only that he would do it differently than President Bush. Anyone could say that, even a 1st grader. He didn't give a good answer to Bush's accusation about being a poor commander in chief when you send a mixed message to Iraq, the troops, and to the American people when you said you supported the war, then said it's the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong way. That's why he's never proposed anything in the senate that he can claim the entire 30 years he's been in the senate. That would take a person who takes a firm stance and conveys it to his fellow senators, and to the American people, and he is totally incapable of doing. The only thing he took a firm stance on was his anti-war movement, allowing the enemy to use it as propoganda against the captured troops in Vietnam. He came accross a promise maker that didn't tell the public what those promises were, and make several flip-flop statements which he always manages to do every time he opens his mouth. I hope someone looks up the "facts" that Kerry made because I think he lied through his teeth in just about everything he said. Did anyone say, "yes, Kerry is right on that point." I think he said things that he hopes people will not look into as to it's validity or lies, but, like all demonicrats, he forgets the bloggers. The bloggers are going to be the death knell for the Kerry campaign along with his flip-flops, generalities, and his angry demeaner.
I am glad my recollection is confirmed (seriously). And BTW, I can't even type or read or say Feliks Dzerzhinsky without wanting to swing a sledge.
IMO this is a very astute observation. If GW beds down at 9:30 every night, as reported, he could be at a significant disadvantage if not adequately prepared. IMO, you are correct. GW fared poorly tonight.
>>My husband started copying Kerry's hand gestures and singing "Macarena" during the debate<<
Oh that is too funny!!!!
It was at the beginning of the debate.
Kerry lost on the world court issue, North Korea, Russia, "global test", giving Iran nukes & sanctions, War on Terror, and if I heard "I served", "what I learned in Vietnam", Africa, "over-extended"..."back door draft" among others. There are many bytes that will bite Kerry later.
The Fox panel essentially said that Kerry won on style points, anyway.
Because it's so out of character for Bush, my guess is he did this on purpose. He plays good chess. It seems like he does something that gets the left orgasmic, and then slams them a week later.
I don't know, but it almost seemed staged. Bush never shows anger, especially in front of a camera. He knows better. Why would he choose to do that I wonder.
BTW - WTF is a global test?
Doesn't slow me down!
McBarfif is saying that the DNC is going to show cutaways of Bush's annoyed, sighing, slouched un-presidential expressions tomorrow.
He also referenced all the polls saying that Kerry won the debate (the ones that he set up with the massive email campaign).
Here's why I think you are wrong.
KERRY won on presentation and smoothness of speech.
Bush won on focussing the issue and hammering the same thing in his hestitating vocal style.
AMERICA has had it with smooth talkers. Simple, plain spoken and specific repitition of the same thing over and over makes it clear to security conscience folks. W is focussed to the point of obsession on protecting our nation. Kerry sounds smooth but flip flops constantly while he talks... and I had to ask myself, what the HELL did he just say, and then; hey, didn't he just say the opposite.
the big one is on going to the globalist worldwide consortium of FRANCE and GERMANY to get permission to protect ourselves or our allies and friends anywhere... THAT came across loud and clear to everybody. And soccer mommies across america made up their minds, if they weren't made up already.
Bush kept saying the phrase "it's hard work" to the point of irritation for me... but to MOST americans, it is exactly what they wanted to hear, the truth. the hard work, the dying and the sacrifice is NOT done... but worthwhile for the cause of liberty worldwide.
Kerry by focussing on some magical undefined plan whereby he wouldve or would NOT have taken down sadaam (I am still not sure where he stands on it, even moreso tonight), pointed it out that he is slick in SAYING he had a plan, but that it may not have involved HARD WORK. Americans who dug out of 911, KNOW better than a simple "sit down and get helpers" meeting would have taken care of.
In finality... Kerry smoothly denying that Sadaam's regime harbored terrorists, contrasts sharply with our continual killing of al queaida related operatives in Iraq, even last week. America KNOWS that Iraq most likely was directly involved in the long range support for 911. Most likely gave aid and comfort to al queaida associates before and much moreso AFTER 911... and that in some ways the connections between all these islamists, is always going to be deliberately nebulous.
Bush won.
But it didn't feel like a win, because he doesn't talk like a smoothie. Smoothie may impress the simple minded, but Substance, repeated over and over and over, inculcates TRUTH to the viewer.
I think Americans will by and large say the president did OK. I also suspect that W will do more 'smoothly' on the next debate, and that he will take a lot of advantage of the doublesided, fully nuanced double sided positions that kerry embraced tonight.
Getting global permission from the french and germans whilst ignoring the commitments of several dozen other nations of the free world, came across as WEAK on defense and America's sovereignty. I don't want a smooth talker. I want a plain speaker that repeats himself so often that even the stupidest terrorist KNOWS... W is going to nail his ass.
I think you are wrong. Perception is not reality.
I'd be annoyed and fatigued after enduring 90 mintues of Kerry's flip/flops and cheap shots. French Kerry had so many of them that it was impossible to refute every one of them.
Oh, good......we can use the orange photos then!
Kerry at the end of the first question: "We can do a better job of training the Iraqi forces to defend themselves, and I know that we can do a better job of preparing for elections. All of these, and especially homeland security, which we'll talk about a little bit later."
Transcript is at http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/debate.transcript.1/index.html
Sigh...this is getting tiresome. Please, take a look at this page from the GWBush campaign site:
http://www.georgewbush.com/debatefacts/Debate.aspx?stamp=9/30/2004%209:20:35%20PM
You will see a thorough listing and debunking with video clips, Kerry's own words etc. of the LIES he told while in the debate tonight. The New Media will be all over this tomorrow, and I hear that some of the old media is scrutinizing Kerry's "facts" even tonight.
And please, give the American public an iota of credit to be able to recognize BS when they see it.
Prairie
Bush should be tired, he is fighting a war overseas and a war here.
The Kerry campaign has a Billionaire and the major Media helping him!
I think a lot of the angst on this board is by people who bought into the pre-debate hype where the media build up W (mainly so that Kerry couldn't help but exceed expectations).
There was a lot of talk on this board of how "Bush is going to kick Kerry's ass" at the debates.
I was not one of those people. I remember what I saw of W in the debates with Gore. W is simply not a very good debater, he wasn't then and he isn't now.
I fully expected Kerry to win the style points coming in. But he didn't win the debate, in the end he did not persuade anyone that wasn't already in his camp.
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