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FR Live Thread: Bush Kerry - First Debate - Thread 2 - Here we go!

Posted on 09/30/2004 5:57:19 PM PDT by Admin Moderator

Thread 1 - Pre-Debate discussion


TOPICS: Breaking News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bush; debate; debates; electionpresident; firstdebate; globalpoints; kerry
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To: MichelleWSC

Sorry, you are nuts.

Bush cannot possibly lose a 6-8 point lead in a debate only a small percentage of the voting population even bothered to watch.

Do you have a "Psychic Readings" sign in your front window?


3,081 posted on 09/30/2004 8:55:33 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Oompa Loompa Doopity Do - I've got a perfect puzzle for you: Find John Kerry's Personality!!)
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To: In The Defense of Liberty
No drama, Prairie.. just raw truth. We can't spin this one.. GW lost it.. he was indecisive, weak, and wavering in his voice and demeanor. And he lost that 17% with his performance. This race is tight.. and he blinked bigtime. I hate it. I'm sick about it. But it's the truth... the dem's have the momentum now and it will be h*ll to get it back, if we ever can. After the election you can call me a "drama queeen", but not before.

I do not think your opinion will pass the global test.

Modern Debates are framed by individual moments.

Reagan's 'there you go again', Bush smiling at Gore as he came into his space' etc.

This debate will be remembered simply as 'the global test'-that sums up the difference between the two men, which one is going to stand for our security.

Amercians do not believe in letting the world have a veto over our security.

3,082 posted on 09/30/2004 8:55:33 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: Admin Moderator

This Dick Morris guy makes me sick! He's whining and spitting on and on. I never liked this guy! Is it just me?


3,083 posted on 09/30/2004 8:55:40 PM PDT by GraceofGod
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To: Howlin

Here's the email the Kerry camp just emailed out


Dear XXXXXXX,

John Kerry won tonight's debate on foreign policy, and we need you to make sure the media reports this right.

Jump into the post-debate debate and keep the record straight.

America saw John Kerry as our next President tonight. Bush had a record of failure to defend, and he failed to defend it. Bush refused to take responsibility for his go it alone rush to war. Bush had no plan, no clue for ending the chaos. Bush can't fix the mess in Iraq because he pretends things are fine. Pretending is no substitute for planning.

Your assignment: Immediately e-mail and call all the major networks and programs listed below saying that John Kerry won the debate. The Republicans are going to do everything possible to spin the debate in their favor. We need you on the offensive.

Everything you need is in this e-mail, including contact information for the major news networks and programs.

Here are some things to emphasize:

America saw John Kerry as our next President tonight.
Kerry showed strength, conviction, and a steady command of the facts.
Kerry left no doubt he can lead the fight to hunt and kill the terrorists.
Kerry offered hope for a fresh start in Iraq so we can finish the job. Kerry has specific plans: Bush had shallow promises.
Here is a phone/e-mail list for the major news networks. Commentators like Larry King, Chris Matthews, Sean Hannity, and Alan Colmes are on TV right now offering their view of the debate results. Hosts of network news shows on ABC, CBS, and NBC are also busy offering their reviews. Hosts of tomorrow's morning shows, Good Morning America, The Today Show, and American Morning, are sure to do the same beginning at 7:00 a.m. EST tomorrow morning. Don't let your voice be cut out.

CNN
(404) 827-1500
Larry King LIVE: comments form
American Morning: comments form

MSNBC
(212) 664-4444
Hardball with Chris Matthews: hardball@msnbc.com

FOX
(212) 301-3000; 1-888-TELL-FOX
Hannity and Colmes: colmes@foxnews.com
FOX Morning News: foxfeedback@foxnews.com

ABC
(212) 456-7777
Nightline: nightline@abcnews.com
Good Morning America: webform

CBS
(212) 975-4321
CBS Evening News: evening@cbsnews.com

NBC
(212) 664-4444
Nightly News: Nightly@NBC.com
The Today Show: today@nbc.com

C-SPAN
(202) 737-3220

Everything you do right now will bring us closer to electing John Kerry as our next president.

Thank you,

Kerry Debate Team

P.S. If you have an extra moment, share your hard work with us. Click here to use our Media Corps reporting page. Just make sure to select "Debate response" as the assignment name. If you are a member of a Media Corps team, please give your team credit by putting your team name in the referral textbox.


3,084 posted on 09/30/2004 8:55:52 PM PDT by Mo1 (Why is the MSM calling the Vietnam Vets and POW's a suspected group??)
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To: Howlin

I lurk a lot and post a little here and there, but there are a lot of "FREEP" name here tonight that I've never seen before. It makes it really hard to filter out the BS from the real stuff. It will take a few days to get the real result. I heard some of the debate. Bush was sincere in his typical halting, almost stuttering way. Kerry was like an attack dog. Why won't somebody ask him what his "plans" are - details, please. Then his house of cards would collapse. Bush had to be nice - he can't say what he'd really like to. He is the president and he must, in fact, deal with other countries and leaders. If he insults them just to win debating points, it could have dire consequences.

I listened to half the debate and watched the other half. Listening, Kerry was clearly the better debater. Watching, Bush won hands down. Which one would you like in the foxhole next to you?

Oh, well.... back to lurking


3,085 posted on 09/30/2004 8:56:03 PM PDT by furball4paws ("Facts are very stubborn things" - Peter Wimsey)
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To: MNlurker
I think we're going to see Cheney drop the hammer on every single point we wished Bush would have hammered on tonite. The Enforcer is up next and you can bet that 1. Nuke fuel 2. Bunker busting bombs 3. World approval will be discussed and really hammered on.

Let Bush act like a President. Cheney will do the dirty work come next week.

Right. I think the President got the point across that his job is to defend this country, first and foremost. I imagine that sits well with women who want their men to stick up for them, right here, right now, not first see if he can get the approval of some other guys in the bar.

3,086 posted on 09/30/2004 8:56:06 PM PDT by Squeako (ACLU: "Only Christians and Boy Scouts are too vile to defend.")
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To: muleskinner

I'm likin' that for a Tagline.....


3,087 posted on 09/30/2004 8:56:22 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Global Test. Didn't need tax cut. Give Iran nuclear fuel. Never waivered on Iraq.)
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To: Gunder

Morris never has anything of substance to say. But he does like to hear himself talk. He's a political whore.


3,088 posted on 09/30/2004 8:56:24 PM PDT by A Citizen Reporter
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To: concerned about politics

Women friends reporting that Bush staying presidential was smart. Women -- particularly moderates and swing voters --don't want their president to get down and dirty, as almost every freeper would prefer.


3,089 posted on 09/30/2004 8:56:26 PM PDT by mwl1
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To: MichelleWSC

I disagree. The President is certainly not the most articulate public speaker in a debate setting. He'll never win on rhetorical points. But he is sincere and authentic in a way his opponent will never be. Kerry could NOT knock down Bush and this is the centerpiece of his fall campaign. Bush held his ground and never wavered. No one got the sense Kerry told us how he would do things differently from Bush or laid out his plans. Certainly the Democrat is an accomplished debater. But as far as substance goes, he can't explain himself well enough to connect to average Americans in the heartland. And that "Global Test" comment he made late in the debate is a big loser. I don't know of a single sane person in this country who thinks our foreign policy should subordinated to the UN and co-ordinated with the French. President Bush is not a guy who seeks to dominate an opponent with brute force; he is much more subtle in going under the radar. When all is said and done, Kerry did not do anything to shake up the race to propel himself into the lead. He had to knock the President out to accomplish it and didn't get it done. This first debate was the toughest of the three and Bush survived. Considering the mainstream media is in the tank for Kerry, it went about as well as we could have expected. For what its worth, the only way Bush can lose the election now is if he does a Howard Dean meltdown down the road or is caught sleeping with a live boy or dead girl. In the final analysis, I think Kerry was better than people anticipated but it doesn't change my vote and I suspect it won't change the direction of the polls. We'll see.


3,090 posted on 09/30/2004 8:56:29 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: pttttt

"Kerry sounded like a gasbag with lots of factoids and little wisdom."

I agree. He sounded "blah, blah, blah." What is his plan for Iraq, again?

Pres. Bush, even in his inarticulate moments, stayed on message and hammered away on Kerry being too inconsistent (flip-flop) to be a CIC.


3,091 posted on 09/30/2004 8:56:58 PM PDT by Loyal Buckeye ((Kerry is a flake))
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To: All
I haven't read any comments here, but here's my take on it.

NO WINNER

Bush:
Good - Stood his ground on Iraq, painted Kerry as indecisive, was strong on North Korea policy, stated what he did in response to Kerry's charges of gutting some programs. Used facts to correct Kerry's statements. Did attack Kerry's comments demeaning allies, especially Iraq's PM.
Bad - Played not to lose. Wasn't aggressive enough on his senate record. Bushdidn't knock him out. He looked nervous at times and seemed wound up too tight. "Hard Work" - Repeated over and over. Said he had a plan, but didn't mention it enough. I understood much of what he said, but I'm not who he's trying to convince.
Wildcard - Did not attack Kerry's stance when he got home and how he called our troops war criminals.

Kerry
Good - Aggressive and attacked. Mentioned the WMD's. Went for his left base he needs. While he left many openings, was not knocked out so he's still in the race.
Bad - ARROGANT. IIIIIII. Was disrespectful of our allies by demeaning the coalition. Did not mention his plan at all. Flipped in the debate - On Iraq especially. Back door draft comments were uncalled for. Repeated himself after point was defeated.

Kerry had lower expectations than Bush had. Bush should IMO have gone for the knockout or a strong body punch that would have Kerry knock himself out. Give him enough rope.

Moderator - I think Jim Leher(sp) did a good job. He gave some tough questions, and then for the most part, let them go without major rambling.

3,092 posted on 09/30/2004 8:57:01 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan (A gun owner voting for John Kerry is like a chicken voting for Col. Saunders. (bye bye .30-30))
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To: riri

When is the next debate? This Wednesday, Oct. 6th?


3,093 posted on 09/30/2004 8:57:03 PM PDT by Gunder
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To: cyncooper
"We in this house all thought Bush won but conceded Kerry did well stylistically."

This is a bit of what I was hinting at earlier today. We all were starting to expect a solid Bush homerun against a stiff, hostile Kerry. Therefore, Bush's baseline expectation was high. All Kerry had to do was to appear something other than his normal, satanic self. Bush clearly didn't hit a homerun, and Kerry seemed almost lifelike. BUT, in the court of public opinion, neither of those accomplishments (or lack thereof) amount to much. Do you shift your vote because someone seemed to rise from the dead? Did anyone not already voting for Bush shift away from him because he didn't hit a homerun? I remember this site after every one of the Bush/Gore debates. It was doom and gloom. Even worse than tonight. Our expectations are high. Probably too high. My wife called tonight. She is a Bush fan but not fan of politics. She thought Bush did great. Her impressions are almost always representative of the general public on things like this. Time will tell.

3,094 posted on 09/30/2004 8:57:09 PM PDT by Rokke
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To: In The Defense of Liberty

Well I, and many others both here and even some in the media with their post-debate reactions, can't share your overwhelming defeatism and pessimism.

Feel free to wallow in it all you want though. But you sound foolish in the process as do your hysterics.

Prairie


3,095 posted on 09/30/2004 8:57:14 PM PDT by prairiebreeze (The Democrat Party has become a national embarrassment!)
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK

Kerry: "Reach out to the Muslim world"

AAPPPPPPPPEEEEAAAASSSSMMENT
--
Exactly.


3,096 posted on 09/30/2004 8:57:16 PM PDT by Gal.5:1 (rainbow flag= celebrate God's promise to Noah!)
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To: Tribune7

Yup, Alan Keyes won


3,097 posted on 09/30/2004 8:57:20 PM PDT by unspun (RU working your precinct, churchmembers, etc. 4 good votes? | Not "Unspun w/ AnnaZ" but I appreciate)
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To: muleskinner

Bush only had to let Kerry yaw on and on with his ridiculous plan for America.....


3,098 posted on 09/30/2004 8:57:20 PM PDT by antceecee
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To: Brad's Gramma

Agree. Especially when he started with the Bush voter.


3,099 posted on 09/30/2004 8:57:22 PM PDT by Bubbette (President Reagan, you are my hero.)
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To: Bubbette

"Ralph Reid."

If Ralph Reed missed what Bush accomplished tonite, than Ralph Reed isn't the man I thought he was.


3,100 posted on 09/30/2004 8:57:44 PM PDT by marajade
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