Posted on 09/29/2004 9:12:51 AM PDT by Ace
Ransom payments seen fuelling Iraq's hostage crisis
By Luke Baker BAGHDAD, Sept 29 (Reuters) - The release of two Italian aid workers in Iraq has raised hopes other hostages may soon be freed, but reports that a large ransom was paid may only feed the burgeoning hostage crisis.
The two Italians, Simona Pari and Simona Torretta, had been seized along with two Iraqi colleagues from a central Baghdad office in a brazen attack witnesses described as very organised and probably carried out by a criminal gang.
Gustavo Selva, an Italian lawmaker, told French radio a ransom of around $1 million had been handed over.
"In principle, we shouldn't give in to blackmail but this time we had to. Although it's a dangerous path to take because, obviously, it could encourage others to take hostages, either for political reasons or for criminal reasons," Selva told RTL.
"The sum ($1 million) is probably correct," he added.
Over the past year or more, hundreds of Iraqis -- doctors, surgeons and prominent businessmen -- have been kidnapped by criminal gangs who demand ransoms of up to $100,000.
Now, with so many easily-identifiable foreigners in Iraq, criminals appear to have branched out, targeting more lucrative Westerners and foreign workers as well as locals.
Kadhim estimates that about 90 percent of the kidnappings in Iraq are carried out by criminal gangs, who then trade the captives on to militant Islamic groups and other factions.
"If the criminals don't get their money within 72 hours or so, they sell them up the chain to other groups," said a British security consultant who has been operating in Iraq for a year.
"There's vast amounts of money being paid, whether it's by companies, families or governments. It's a very, very good business," he said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.netscape.cnn.com ...
The Vatican is a government unto itself.
Seen this?
http://www.cathnews.com/news/409/128.php
Not saying it is a source of the release, but it raises questions, IMO. It looks like the Vatican (not Italy) was trying to find a way to get them out. And they have not done this for other hostages. It appears they work separate from any "Italian Govt".
Time will tell, someday we will know who secured the financial release for them. Sure it may be speculation on my part, but you can't prove it isn't a possibility, can you?
I'm sure the technology exists that could make something like this...but it would be a logistics nightmare, to have to implement it, and would probably not be cost effective. Who would be selected for implanting? So far, it's been mostly civilians that have been kidnapped, and most of them are not even US citizens. Who would pay for it? BW wold have to be allocated on a satellite, if you wanted global coverage, and there would have to be some team of some sort to monitor locations...etc
Qu'ran- SURA 9:29 , Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book(Bible), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Non-muslims in muslim conquered lands have payed this for centurys.. nothing new.. and totally legal to all observing Islamese... call it ransome or Jizya.. same thing..
ALSO:
The holy Prophet demanded his followers to "strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; then after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" for ransom (Qu'ran;47:4).
There is far more than this.. but this will suffice.. Islam is a social disease, for 1400+ years the MuzzloPox has infected humans.. ITS TIME FOR A CURE......
That's what I said.
Seen this?
Yes I have.
It says: He [the Catholic bishop of Iraq] noted that since the Islamic terrorists have ignored the appeals of Muslim clerics for the freedom of the hostages, the pleas of the Catholic Church are not likely to be honored.
In other words, the Catholic Church did not negotiate with them.
Your link provides no evidence for your claim that Vatican rpresentatives ever met with the hostage-takers or go-betweens or that any offer of cash was made by the Vatican.
It looks like the Vatican (not Italy) was trying to find a way to get them out.
No, according to the article it looks like the Catholic bishop believed he had no chance of helping them and that the Vatican asked the governments of the world to put renewed pressure on the terroists to stop these situations.
You say that Italy did not help - again, you're wrong. The Italian government actively worked with the government of Jordan to open channels and try to get them released.
And they have not done this for other hostages.
The Vatican has done the exact same thing for all the hostages: appealed to the terrorists to stop taking people hostage. The Vatican has not negotiated with any terrorists in Iraq.
It appears they work separate from any "Italian Govt".
Again, the article does not describe any specific action taken by the Vatican other than a verbal appeal. And the Vatican is a separate government from the Republic of Italy. Why do you put the Italian goverment in quotes? I can assure you that Italy is indeed a sovereign country with its own government.
Time will tell, someday we will know who secured the financial release for them.
I'm sure time will tell.
Sure it may be speculation on my part, but you can't prove it isn't a possibility, can you?
You made a false assertion and have not been able to provide a shred of proof to back it up.
The link you provided does nothing but further discredit your scurrilous original statement.
You, in your prejudice, said something completely unsupported and slanderous.
You could apologize, rather than continue to flip-flop: "Oh the Vatican did this. Well, I think the Vatican did this. Well, you can't prove the Vatican didn't. Well, you can't prove that there is no possibility that the Vatican did. Well I knew for a fact the Vatican did it before I wasn't completely sure the Vatican did it." And on and on.
You're starting to parody yourself.
May I ask what your response will be if it turns out the Vatican had any part in their release?
They must have been very important Italians. I am of Italian descent and I wonder if anyone would pay to ransom me.
If the Vatican participated and no cash was offered or changed hands I will be very happy.
If the Vatican participated and cash was either offered or paid, I would be pretty angry and I would write Cardinal Sodano (the Vatican Secretary of State) to let him know that I am sickened by such weakness in the face of terror.
I'll simply point out that it would be incredibly stupid for the Vatican to pay kidnappers ransom money for the simple fact that it would make a target of all the Catholic aid workers and missionaries working in Muslim areas like Northern Nigeria, East Timor, the Philippines, the Sudan, Albania, Kashmir, etc.
If it spread that the Vatican was willing to pay cash for hostages, nothing would get done.
So 'pacifists' in bed with the terrorists have their lives spared so that hundreds, maybe thousands, of others can die? I feel nothing for these women. They put themselves in jeopardy. They are alligning with these murderous thugs. They are seeking to undermine the government seeking to spare ALL their lives. And, thanks to this episode, terrorists now know some will pay a huge fee to finance their operations across the globe to temporarily spare 2 lives.
Fools. When they are all forced to bow to the fundamentalist version of Islam, or die, they'll be in utter shock at what they paved the way to allow.
Don't be. Just remember that brave Italian hostage who told his killers "now you will see how an Italian dies" moments before they murdered him several months ago. I only hope I would have that degree of courage and defiance under similar circumstances, but I'm not at all confident that I would.
The Italian government made a huge mistake by paying ransom for the kidnapped women. But that mistake doesn't stain the honor of the thousands of brave Italian soldiers who are placing their lives at risk in Iraq for the sake of defeating terrorism and tyrannical oppression. Italy has stood side by side with the U.S. in this war against Islamic terror, and for that I will always think much more highly of the Italian people than I will ever think of the Germans or the French.
Does anyone else see the futility of sending Italian troops there to fight terrorism, if their country is going to pay for terrorism?
The U.S. should send all the Italians home. Today. I'd rather Berlusconi keep his rifle-droppers home than see the terrorist get a lifetime's lunch money.
I'm sure they do, but you don't make national policy on the basis of emotion and fear. You do it on the basis of reason. And reason says that if you pay ransom, you incentivize kidnapping.
I don't care if their families think the kidnappers should be paid or slaughtered. It's what's in the best interests of the country that counts, especially if you're considering paying a ransom with tax dollars.
Italy isn't the same thing as the Vatican. Buy a map.
Bump city. I will assume it's an error, but it should be removed regardless.
It's not? Oh! When did it move? Thanks, I'll run out right now and buy one, thanks.
As if this is the first case of hostages for a ransom in Iraq.
The article quotes a legislator. Funds were authorized by the Italian government. There is absolutely no reason to connect the Vatican. NONE.
AQ..STOP THAT RIGHT NOW. It was the government and pressure from ninny's that caused this. Did anyone here want those poor women murdered...????? ... HELL NO... NO WAY... But, this will lead to more...and we all, know this. Very bad move to give in because the next demand will be for more,and so on and so on..
My *ONLY* hope at this point, is that the government gave them exploding money tainted with some chemical agent... so they will get rashes and DIE from touching it.....
HEHEHE...
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