Live Thread: CBS Evening News (Dan tells us why we're all wrong)

www.freerepublic.com | September 10, 2004

[Howlin]

Have at it.

******Transcript************

'KEY CHALLENGES TO NATIONAL GUARD DOCUMENTS ANSWERED'
Fri Sep 10 2004 19:03:11 ET

The biggest challenges to the authenticity of the documents featured in the 60 MINUTES segment on President Bush's Texas National Guard service are answered in a report to be broadcast on the CBS EVENING NEWS tonight (6:30-7:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. The report states that the type style, typewriter and the superscript function critics claim did not exist at the time the memos from President Bush's former Texas National Guard commander were typed were indeed all available. In fact, similar raised "th" superscripts have been found on other National Guard documents the White House has released from the president's file.

Furthermore, Marcel Mately, the document and handwriting expert used to authenticate the documents for CBS News and 60 MINUTES, asserts that copies of the memos critics are examining have been degraded by reproduction though photocopying, computer scanning and faxing and are not reliable representations of the memos.

A transcript is attached:

BUSH DOCUMENTS

EVENING NEWS WITH DAN RATHER

9-10-04

Rather Lead In: There were attacks today on the CBS News "60 Minutes" report this week raising new questions about President Bush's Vietnam-era time in the Texas Air National Guard. The questions raised by our report include:

--Did a wealthy Texas oilman-friend of the Bush family use his influence with the speaker of the Texas House of Representatives .. to get George W. Bush a coveted slot in the National Guard .. keeping him out of the draft and any probable service IN Vietnam?

--Did Lieutenant Bush refuse a direct order from his commanding officer?

--Was Lieutenant. Bush suspended for failure to perform up to standards?

--Did Lieutenant Bush ever take a physical he was required and ordered to take? If not, why not?

--And did Lieutenant Bush, in fact, complete his commitment to the Guard?

These questions grew out of new witnesses and new evidence -- including documents written by Lieutenant Bush's squadron commander.

Today, on the internet and elsewhere, some people -- including many who are partisan political operatives -- concentrated not on the key questions the overall story raised but on the documents that were part of the support of the story.

They alleged the documents are FAKE.

Rather: MANY OF THOSE RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CBS DOCUMENTS HAVE FOCUSED ON SOMETHING CALLED SUPERSCRIPT... A KEY THAT AUTOMATICALLY TYPES A RAISED "TH". CRITICS CLAIM TYPEWRITERS DIDN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY IN THE 70S. BUT SOME MODELS DID....IN FACT, OTHER BUSH MILITARY RECORDS ALREADY OFFICIALLY RELEASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE ITSELF SHOW THE SAME SUPERSCRIPT.

HERE'S ONE..... FROM 1968.

SOME ANALYSTS OUTSIDE CBS SAY THEY BELIEVE THE TYPEFACE ON THESE MEMOS IS NEW TIMES ROMAN.... WHICH THEY CLAIM WAS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE 1970S.

BUT THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY THAT DISTRIBUTES THIS TYPING STYLE.... SAYS IT HAS BEEN AVAILABE SINCE 1931. DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY ANALYZED THE DOCUMENTS FOR CBS NEWS.

HE SAYS HE BELIEVES THEY ARE REAL...BUT IS CONCERNED ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING EXAMINED BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE QUESTIONING THE DOCUMENTS....BECAUSE DETIORATION OCCURS EACH TIME A DOCUMENT IS REPRODUCED.....AND THE DOCUMENTS BEING ANALYZED OUTSIDE OF CBS HAVEBEEN PHOTOCOPIED, FAXED, SCANNED AND DOWNLOADED.... AND ARE FAR REMOVED FROM THE DOCUMENTS CBS STARTED WITH WHICH WERE ALSO PHOTOCOPIES.

DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY DID THIS INTERVIEW WITH US PRIOR TO THE 60 MINUTES BROADCAST.

HE LOOKED AT THE DOCUMENTS AND THE SIGNATURES OF COLONEL JERRY KILLIAN.... COMPARING KNOWN DOCUMENTS WITH THE COLONEL'S SIGNATURE ON THE NEWSLY DISCOVERED ONES.

Matley: "WE LOOK BASICALLY AT WHAT'S CALLED SIGNIFICANT OR INSIGNIFICANT FEATURES TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S THE SAME PERSON OR NOT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENTIFYING THEM.

I WOULD SAY BASED ON OUR AVAILABLE HANDWRITING EVIDENCE, YES. THIS IS THE SAME PERSON."

Rather: MATLEY FINDS THE SIGNAT'URES TO BE SOME OF THE MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE...WE TALKED TO HIM AGAIN TODAY BY SATELLITE.

Matley "SINCE IT IS REPRESENTED THAT SOME OF THEM ARE DEFINITELY HIS... THEN WE CAN CONCLUDE THEY ARE HIS SIGNATURES."

Rather: "ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT QUESTIONS COME ABOUT THESE. WE'RE NOT, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'RE SURPRISED."

Matley: "I KNEW GOING IN THAT THIS WAS DYNAMITE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND I KNEW THAT POTENTIALLY IT WAS FAR MORE POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO ME PROFESSIONALLY THAN BENEFIT ME. AND I KNEW THAT. BUT WE SEEK THE TRUTH. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT YOURSELF OUT. TO SEEK THE TRUTH AND TAKE WHAT COMES FROM IT."

Rather: ROBERT STRONG WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER FOR THE TEXAS AIR NATIONAL GUARD DURING THE VIETNAM YEARS. HE KNEW COL. JERRY KILLIAN, THE MAN CREDITED WITH WRITING THE DOCUMENTS.... AND PAPER WORK... LIKE THESE DOCUMENTS...WAS HIS SPECIALTY. HE IS STANDING BY HIS JUDGEMENT THAT THE DOCUMENTS ARE REAL.

Rather: "WHEN YOU READ THROUGH THESE DOCUMENTS, IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT THESE ARE GENUINE?"

Strong: "WELL,, THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE WAY BUSINESS WAS DONE AT THAT TIME. THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MAN THAT I REMEMBER JERRY KILLIAN BEING. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT'S DISCORDANT WITH WHAT WERE THE TIMES, WHAT WERE THE SITUATION OR WHAT WERE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED."

Rather: STRONG SAYS THE HIGHLY CHARGED POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE OF THE GUARD AT THE TIME... WAS PERFECTLY REPRESENTED IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS

Strong: "IT VERGED ON OUTRIGHT CORRUPTION IN TERMS OF THE FAVORS THAT WERE DONE, THE POWER THAT WAS TRADED. AND IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE. FROM A MORAL AND ETHICAL STANDPOINT. IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE."

Rather: IT IS THE INFORMATION IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS THAT IS MOST COMPELLING FOR PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORD IN THE NATIONAL GUARD. AUTHOR JIM MORE HAS WRITTEN TWO BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT.

Rather: "YOU'VE STUDIED PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORDS FOR 10 YEARS.. ARE THESE DOCUMENTS CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORD AS YOU KNOW IT?"

Moore: "THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORDS AS I KNOW IT."

Rather: "PUT IT IN CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE FOR US ... THE STORY AND WHAT WE CALL THE COUNTERATTACK ON THE STORY. WHERE ARE WE RIGHT NOW?

Moore "I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS SOME INCRIMINATING DOCUMENTS HAVE COME OUT. THE WHITE HOUSE, YOU SHOULD REMEMBER, HAS NOT DISCREDITED THE DOCUMENTS. THEY'RE RELYING ON THE BLOGOSPHERE AND OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THAT. BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE PROBABLY KNOWS THESE DOCUMENTS ARE IN FACT REAL."

Rather Tag: The "60 Minutes" report was based NOT solely on the recovered documents .. but on a preponderance of evidence .. including documents that were provided by un-impeachable sources .. and interviews with former officials of the Texas National Guard. If any definitive evidence to the contrary of our story is found, we will report it.

So far, there is none.

[CFC__VRWC]

A character that you type has two parts - the character itself and the "white space" (background) around it. With kerning, that white space can be varied depending on the character being typed and the characters around it, resulting in the characters being placed closer together and giving a neater appearance with the finished document. Since the computer "knows" what each character is, it can perform this magic.

A typewriter, OTOH, has no way of knowing what character has been typed previously - all it knows is what key you're striking now. Therefore, it cannot adjust the white space around the characters - every character is printed on a fixed-sized field, so they're all equally spaced apart.

[handy]

Stupid me doesn't know what kerning is. Can you explain it to me please?

Here you go. ;-)

[A]nother aspect of the type on [the August 18, 1973 memo] suggests, perhaps proves, forgery. 1. The type in the document is KERNED. Kerning is the typsetter's art of spacing various letters in such a manner that they are 'grouped' for better readability. Word processors do this automatically. NO TYPEWRITER CAN PHYSICALLY DO THIS.

To explain: the letter 'O' is curved on the outside. A letter such as 'T' has indented space under its cross bar. On a typewriter if one types an 'O' next to a 'T' then both letters remain separated by their physical space. When you type the same letters on a computer next to each other the are automatically 'kerned' or 'grouped' so that their individual spaces actually overlap. e. g., TO. As one can readily see the curvature of the 'O' nestles neatly under the cross bar of the 'T'. Two good kerning examples in the alleged memo are the word 'my' in the second line where 'm' and 'y' are neatly kerned and also the word 'not' in the fourth line where the 'o' and 't' overlap empty space. A typewriter doesn't 'know' what particular letter is next to another and can't make those types of aesthetic adjustments.

2. The kerning and proportional spacing in each of the lines of type track EXACTLY with 12 point Times Roman font on a six inch margin (left justified). Inother words, the sentences break just as they would on a computer and not as they would on a typewriter. Since the type on the memo is both proportionally spaced and kerned the lines of type break at certain instances (i.e., the last word in each line of the first paragraph are - 1. running, 2. regarding, 3. rating, 4. is, 5. either). If the memo was created on a typewriter the line breaks would be at different words (e. g., the word 'running' is at the absolute outside edge of the sentence and would probably not be on the first line).

3. The sentences have a wide variance in their AMOUNT of kerning and proportional spacing. Notice how the first line of the first paragraph seems squished together and little hard to read but the last line of the first paragraph has wider more open spacing. Even the characters themselves are squished in the first line (as a computer does automatically) and more spread out on the last line where there is more room.

There's no way a typewriter could 'set' the type in this memo and even a good typesetter using a Linotype machine of the era would have to spend hours getting this effect.

[Skywarner]

"BUT...to the point...NOBODY on earth could have used whatever version of Times New Roman in the 70's unless they had a damned Linotype printer used exclusively in the printing industry!

Do I have that right?

A buddy of mine was in the printing industry back in the 70's and early 80's.... He's also a dyed in the wool democrat (albeit with some conservative traits - he doesn't drink the DIM cool aid...)

His opinion of this entire situation? The CBS documents are frauds. Plain and simple.

He also said that this situation has pushed him over the edge. He _was_ going to skip the election this year - he just couldn't bring himself to vote for Kerry. Now, however, he's decided to cast his vote for President Bush!

By the way, we live in New York State...

[Sonar5]

Ok here is my little homework I did from the USA Today docs
and the CBS docs with Killians signature attached....

Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out which ones are
forged, and which are real.....

Of course when you are a partisan hack like Rather,
McCauliffe, Harkin, and their morons minions, any lie will do..

enjoy....

Feel free to pass this around....

Signatures Captured and reviewed from:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-02-14-bush-docs.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/60II/main641984.shtml

If you have more let me know, and I will add them to the list with dates....

Regards,
Joe

[Dog]

Look what the blog Wizbang has....

Wizbang

[soozla]

ROBERT STRONG, Ph.D.

William Lyne Wilson Professor of Politics

Williams School of Commerce 308

Tel: 540-463-8905

Email: strongr@wlu.edu home page

[mass55th]

I wish that Sean Hannity would ask Gary Killian if he knows what Strong is doing now. That would make it easier to try to identify him. I think I'll drop him a line at Fox.

[JustaCowgirl]

I have this mental image of a whole team of poor schmucks coming into CBS Monday morning and getting these incendiary messages on their voice mail intended for Dan. LOL. Go for it!

[Airborne Longhorn]

Thanks, RW.

What I take away from your remarks and those of Petronski is that...

No way in hell would a USAF LTC have had convenient access to any device with TNR font in the 70's!

Game over...

And, by the way...

...nice triangulation between Pennsylvania, Alaska, and Texas!

FR Rules.

[bert]

....OK, Juan, I have a copy of your secret contract with the Kerry campaign.....

Not quite right Mondonico.
Juan has a contract with National Public Radio.NPR has the contract with the Kerry campaign and is a wholly owned subsidiary of the DNC.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

"John Kerry's heart-dots"

LOL!! I was also struck by his closing "Luv ya."

[Admin Moderator]

Transcript added at beginning of thread.

[Matt32]

Drudge headline now taking up the CBS response to superscripting as fact?

'KEY CHALLENGES TO NATIONAL GUARD DOCUMENTS ANSWERED'

Goes on to cite the full CBS transcript. We've got to get it out there that this answers nothing, that the superscripts available in 1973 did not match the superscripts seen in the "memos"; that Matley's expertise is as a handwriting analyst and he has no place analyzing the documents from a typing/font perspective, and so on... We made the truth come to light here with this story, now let's not let CBS and Rather cover it up!

[SauronOfMordor]

Didn't many of the documents copied by photocopiers of that era start "yellowing" quickly? I worked for the National Archives in the 1980s and recall many documents looking yellowed.

Photocopying has gone through many generations. When I was in grammar school in the late 60's and still encountered them in libraries into the late 70's/early 80's, photocopiers produced negative images (ie a photocopy of black text on white paper) and actually used a photo chemical process inside (the sheets came out wet and you had to place them someplace to dry). Then came positive image photocopying on special paper (which would yellow over years), and finally plain-paper copying.

Here is a chronology of photocopy and printer technology

[CFC__VRWC]

Wow - even among the suspect documents the signature changes! And not a single one comes even remotely close to Killian's real sig.

[SE Mom]

"For CBS to say "but typewriters in the day could do superscripts" ignores the whole point of why the superscripting in the forged documents are so persuasive -- the letters on a fixed-size metal wheel can't just get smaller or larger. They must know this, and therefore their continued attempts to deceive the American public are even more sickening."

I heartily agree, and am so enraged I've called CBS 3x today and sent several emails.

My son (currently recuperating at home- recently returned from Iraq) sat here today with his mouth open listening to this on FOX, Rush, Hannity etc. He's pretty cynical now though- he's furious yet thinks Rather will get away with it.

Does anyone else feel as though we're living in the twilight zone?

[TalBlack]

If he said "I KNOW this is true," rather than "I believe" then let me offer my layman's diagnosis: the guy is delusional.

Which I've known all along anyway.



He said "I know it is true". It was all over WABC in NY today. Delusional is right!

[Basilides]

Just sent this to CBS Chicago affiliate...

To: winterj@wbbm-am.com, hmarshall@cbs.com

To Whom It Better Concern:

The obvious forgery of the "Killian" documents that "60 Minutes' used to smear President Bush regarding his National Guard service, and Dan Rather's adamant assertion today, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, that those documents are indeed authentic, has led me to conclude that I will boycott any and all CBS affilliated television and radio stations, and after I write this e-mail, any CBS-affiliated web-sites.

I will also publicize to any and all my friends, associates and acquaintances, the advertising sponsors of as many CBS affiliates as I can determine, and urge them to not only boycott CBS, but write and demand that its present sponsors withdraw their advertising from CBS affiliates.

Unless....

Dan Rather apologizes and withdraws the claim about the authenticity of the documents...

or

CBS fires Dan Rather.

I hope someone at the top of your news organization realizes the gravity of the threat this malfeasance poses to your integrity and reputation as heirs to what used to be a venerable news organization.

At present, you make the National Inquirer look like C-Span.

[Soul Seeker]

Wow!! Glad to hear he's voting for the prez!

I wonder just how far this is going to snowball. It's getting harder and harder to be a Democrat of conscience and deny what your party has become. We now have the media openly trying to destroy our President!

It's treason.

[Dont Mention the War]

Then why wasn't Dan's evening news live here in LA at 6:30pm Eastern?

Oh, I see where we're getting confused. I was only talking about the cable news channels, not the broadcast networks.

Brit Hume primarily ... it ended not long ago. Watching Shep Smith now. It's 4.44pm. All the cable shows are live right now. They repeat every three hours ... but I am normally too tired to watch them later.

Right. Starting at 6:00 p.m. Eastern, the three cable news channels start running hour-long programs, most of which are live, but at 11:00 p.m. those programs all end up repeating until 5:00 a.m. (6:00 a.m. in FNC's case). The cable networks claim it's "for the convenience of West Coast viewers," but in reality they're just too cheap to run live shows at night. Back when CNN was the only game in town, they were live all night long except for maybe an hour or so around 4:00 a.m. (It's been so long since they've done that, I can't even remember the old schedule.)

You'll often see me on this site at 3am in the morning when I wake.

Me too, but usually I'm winding down before bed, LOL! Nothing like breakfast at noon...