In Search of Zarathustra [Pre-Islamic Iran once again making a strong come back]

Boston Review ^ | 9/5/04 | Jehangir Pocha

[Ptarmigan]

Persian women are very attractive I notice. I notice some of them have blonde hair.

[Ptarmigan]

Persian are very proud people. They don't like being called Arab. In fact, they are not Arabs. Persians have a long history. Actually, I saw a Persian-American Association at my college and it had a painting of a Persian girl. She was not wearing a headscarf. She was a traditional costume that was bright green in color and looked kind Indian or European. The girl had dirty blonde or light brown hair and had green eyes. Her skin was fair.

[FITZ]

A lot of Persians have blue or green eyes.

[FITZ]

Does anyone have a sense to whether Iranians would be receptive to Christianity if they were free to choose?

I think if they were free to choose they would chose a mixture, some would be Christians and I think they would be different types of Christians --- some Orthodox, some Catholic, some Evangelical, but I think some would return to their old religion and others.

[Cronos]

FAroukh Bulsara! If the Kurds embrace ZOroastrianism, I got no problem with making them full-fledged allies of hte west, part of NATO etc. or even a US commonwealth if they so wich it. I hope Iran, Azerbaijan and Tajikistan also revert to Zoroastrianism soon.

[Cronos]

Instead, we treat Islam as if it's something people can *choose* to belong to or not. They can't. It's a prison for many.

Very well put

[Cronos]

Arabs won't leave Islam because it's their root, Arabs = Islam, this won't happen in Iraq.

Well, two points:

1. Most of those who call themselves "Arabs" aren't really, hsitorically Arabic, they've just been Arabicized (as is happening in the Sudan NOW). Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis etc. are NOT Arabs. They just want to potray themselves as such because inIslam, despite protests to the contrary, Arabs are the master race and those claiming descent from Mohound are Quaraish, superior folk, fit to be kings
2. Secondly, Arab <> Islam --> The Arabs from the Arabian peninsula had pagan religions before Islamand were also influenced by Arianism (a Christian heresy), and that is reflected inIslam. The Yemenis used to be part of the Ethiopian Christian Empire.

What we need to do is to encourage the Pheonicians, Egyptians, Syrians etc. to stopthinking of themselves as Arabs and Muslimes and cutlivate a sense of nationalism (I see that happening in Iran and yes, even in Syria (which, lest anyone forget, is a secular state where Christians are treated on par with everyone else -- 10% of Syria IS christian)) sot hat they eventually throw off the yoke.

This would take time, to speed up the process nuke Meccca...

[Cronos]

Iranians will because their root is Zoroastrianism, Persian root = Zoroastrianism.

Well, not completely. Zarathustra's teachings are based on the Indo-European religion practised by the Irani peoples.

The ancient Iranis practised a religion related to early hinduism, but with a significant difference.

While the Indians worshipped the family of supernaturals called the Devas and reduced the other 'family' of supernaturals, called the Ahuras to the status of demons, the opposite happened in Iran

In Iran, the Ahuras (Iranic languages pronounce hte Indian 's' as 'h', so that's how the Sindhu people of the Indus valley were called Hindus by the Persians), were given primary importance while daevas were relegated to the status of household gods.

Zarathustra took ONE Ahura -- Ahura Mazda, the God of light and stated that worship was due to him alone.

so, Persians = Aryanic religion. But that's oversimplification, by that 'standard' all of us should be animists.

[Cronos]

I lived in Bahrain for a few years and yes, you're right -- Irani women ARE gorgeous and true fashionistas

[Cronos]

Radicalism should be banned not the religions.
Berr... slam IS radicalism

[Cronos]

Christians were more brutal than Muslims 1000 years ago but Christians learnt how to modify their religion through history.

What cra* are you spouting? Did Christians do what Mahmud of Ghazni did?

Nothing symbolises more the absoluteness of Muslim belligerence towards Hindus than the Hindu Kush. Historically, the passes across the Hindu Kush have been of great military significance, providing access to the northern plains of India to foreign invaders, starting from Alexander the Great in 327 BC, to Taimurlane in 1398 AD, and from Mahmud of Ghazni, in 1001 AD, to Nadar Shah in 1739 AD.

As noted by Srinandan Vyas on the Hindu.org web site: 'In Persian, the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtar -- to slaughter or carnage, because all Hindus living there were slaughtered. Encyclopaedia Americana says of Hindu Kush: The name means literally "Kills the Hindu," a reminder of the days when Hindu slaves from Indian subcontinent died in harsh Afghan mountains while being transported to Moslem courts of Central Asia. While Encyclopaedia Britannica mentions that the name Hindu Kush first appears in 1333 AD in the writings of Ibn Battutah, the medieval Berber traveller, who said the name meant "Hindu Killer," a meaning still given by Afghan mountain dwellers who are traditional enemies of Hindus.'

'Unlike the Jewish holocaust,' writes again Vyas, 'the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is easily likely to be in millions.' A few known historical figures can be used to justify this estimate. Encyclopaedia Britannica recalls that in December 1398 AD, Taimurlane ordered the execution of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi; likewise, the number of captives butchered by Taimurlane's army was about 100,000 .

Encyclopaedia Britannica again mentions that Mughal emperor Akbar 'ordered the massacre of about 30,000 captured Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod, a number confirmed by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian.' Afghan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afghanistan, which used to be part of the Hindu Shahiya kingdoms '1,500,000 residents perished.'

[Cronos]

I have read Qoran and I know how it sounds but I also understand that Qoran was an advancement for the people of Arabian lands 1425 years ago.

The peoples of the Arabian PENINSULA maybe, but not for the poples of Arabian lands -- the Syrians, Eygptians etc were Christians and had a high culture, the Yemenis were part of the Christian Ethiopian Empire (which a decade before Mohound came close to destoying Makkah itself)

[Cronos]

It's sad that those pretty girls are actually risking their safety and lives by daring to show their faces --- the mullahs want them to hide their faces in shame under those hideous rags.

Well, the in Iran they just have to cover up their hair, which is a pity though...

[Cronos]

If Zoroastrianism began about 3500 years ago, it is NOT the world's first mono-theistic religion. According to Biblical and historical references, Judaism began almost 7000 years ago, didn't it? It sounds as though the Persian was influenced by Judaism, possibly as a result of trade and movement of people along the Silk Road.

Pardon me while I laugh aloud at the number of errors in your post.

Firstly-- the date of Zoroaster's ministry is still debated with two dates being put forth as 700 BC and 1700 BC.  The 700 BC date seems a bit more plausibel as some texts seem to suggest that he was near the time of Cyrus

Judaism as a codified religion begane only with Moses, approx. 1400 B.C., so Judaism as a codified religion is at most 3500 years old.  The religion practised by The Patriarachs would be proto-Judaism/YHWHism.

To say that the Persian religion was influenced by Judaism is pretty funny.  It has it's roots in Aryanic religious thoughts, NOT semitic.  Zoroastrianism doesn't even seem to have been influenced by the Semitic religions in nearby Babylonia and Assyria

Oh, and the Silk Road starts in CHINA and goes along Central Asia AND, only started around the time of the Persian Empire.  Zoroastrianism, whichever date you accept, predates the Persian Empire.

[Cronos]

Nietsche just took his idea of Zarathustra. hitler took his concept of ARyanic religions and distorted it for his own benefit -- the Swastika, a sign of good fortune among ARyan cultures was made into a symbol of death by that maniac

[Cronos]

4

[FITZ]

Not just their hair --- if they go out in public they have to put an ugly brown chador over their stylish western clothes. I've been told that most Persian women like very much to look attractive and are dressed very nicely under those chadors they have to wear. When Persian women are in the USA, unlike the Arab women they don't obey the rules from back home and instead dress modestly but in nice clothes and don't cover their hair either.

[SuziQ]

I humbly stand (er, sit) corrected. I've never really studied Ancient History, though my daughter will be doing that in homeschooling this year. Sounds like I need to study along with her, huh? ;o)

The whole region is fascinating to me, and I intend to also read some of Bernard Lewis's work on Arabs. I found a book by him on the History of the Arab people, but I haven't gotten the chance to sit and read it yet.

[bert]

.....whom he called Ahura Mazda.....

Many modern historians also note that Ahura Mazada should not be confused with Wankel Mazda that is worshiped by some but is actually a sports car engine.

[F14 Pilot]

You are right!