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To: xJones

Exactly. Hitler became so popular, especially during his first years, because he gave the people work (well, which kind of: building Autobahnen for a fast transport of the army, building defense lines at the borders) and more important: he gave Germany back its national pride. When the war came near, it must be said that the vast majority of Germans did not want to attack Poland, they feared the response of Britain and France, and they saw no advantage or right for them. That´s what I´m told by my Grandma´s. Even Generals planned to assasinate Hitler in 1938. It´s a tragedy, and I think that all this horror would not have happened if the people had known what was going to happen - no normal citizen ever thought of the idea to kill all European Jews, or to bomb/shoot civilians. I think that actually 10% were convinced Nazis, and the others were either resistance fighters, silent people who tried to get out of trouble, silent people who had to support the Nazi crimes and people who actively and voluntarily helped the Nazis without believing their ideas.


36 posted on 09/01/2004 1:31:40 PM PDT by Michael81Dus
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To: Michael81Dus
Hitler struck first and took care of the generals who might appose him prior to WWII. The German Army never squawked again until the bomb attempt late in the war.
37 posted on 09/01/2004 1:42:15 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: Michael81Dus
Hitler became so popular, especially during his first years, because he gave the people work (well, which kind of: building Autobahnen for a fast transport of the army, building defense lines at the borders) and more important: he gave Germany back its national pride.

I have a elderly neighbor born in Germany, 1936, and emigrated to the U.S. in 1957. To this day, Gerlinde will defend Hitler because he brought back full employment to Germany. Her father died in a Soviet prisoner of war camp, and her 14 year-old brother went out to fight in 1945 and they never saw him again, but...... Hitler did bring full employment. I can't understand her reasoning so we don't talk about it anymore.

When the war came near, it must be said that the vast majority of Germans did not want to attack Poland, they feared the response of Britain and France, and they saw no advantage or right for them. That´s what I´m told by my Grandma´s.

William Shirer pointedly commented that in contrast to the wildly cheering German crowds of 1914, nobody was cheering in Berlin, 1939, for Hitler's war.

no normal citizen ever thought of the idea to kill all European Jews, or to bomb/shoot civilians. I think that actually 10% were convinced Nazis, and the others were either resistance fighters, silent people who tried to get out of trouble, silent people who had to support the Nazi crimes and people who actively and voluntarily helped the Nazis without believing their ideas.

It's the 80%+ sheeple that can go along with any society to it's end.

BTW, Gerlinde who was born near Nuremberg doesn't hate Jews. She takes her annual 1 month vacation back home to Germany, and if she hates any group it's the former East Germans.:)

39 posted on 09/01/2004 2:23:11 PM PDT by xJones
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To: Michael81Dus
"...no normal citizen ever thought of the idea to kill all European Jews, or to bomb/shoot civilians. I think that actually 10% were convinced Nazis"

Maybe you are right, however not only SS unites committed those crimes.

I think that Germans are a little too much subordinated in relations with their own government.
I think that for Germans state is more important than nation.
In Poland we have reverse situation. Even the best government would be criticized. Nation is the most important, government is rather worthless.
40 posted on 09/01/2004 2:51:31 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: Michael81Dus; Grzegorz 246; xJones

I think this is a common feature among all modern-era totalitarian regimes. I have read an article by Chen Limin about the how remarkably similar socialism, including Communism, is to fascism: (sorry, it is available in Chinese only)

http://www.huanghuagang.org/issue09/big5/38.htm

In the article Chen has observed that totalitarian ideologies were very often widely implemented due to three types of people:

1) Those who blindly believe and follow authority-type figures, whether they be Adolf Hitler, Josepf Stalin, or Mao Zedong. In particular, young people are prone to believe what they think are "learned opinions", and even more so if the figures who expressed them are "charismatic and electrifying". This encouraged dictators to believe that they were working "for the good of the people" and made them even more confident to go further.

2) Those who were selfish and cowardly, particularly most of the ordinary people. Most poeple's sense of self-protection very often led them to remain silent if speaking out implies jail term, to follow orders if resistance means giving up your life. Dictators were in fact encouraged by such behaviours - hey, if you can get away with what you are doing, why not go further?

3) Scheming opportunitists surrounding the dictators. Ruthless and filled with greed, opportunitists plotted to advance their own interests by working for the dictators with whatever means: devising plots for dictators, producing propaganda, crushing dissents, bullying the populations.

This is defects in human nature, or in Christian terms, some of the most serious symptoms of our unregenerated sinful nature. It is not that people don't know these ideologies are bad, but given these weaknesses the ideologies had produced some of the most horrible bloodbaths in the 20th century (and which continues to unfold now).


43 posted on 09/05/2004 8:24:55 AM PDT by NZerFromHK (Controversially right-wing by NZ standards: unashamedly pro-conservative-America)
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