Posted on 08/25/2004 2:09:41 PM PDT by yonif
Declaring "the front line of the war against terror once again involves the citizens," Republican Alan Keyes said Tuesday he believes the U.S. Constitution grants properly trained private individuals the right to own and carry machine guns.
"You're not talking about giving citizens access to atom bombs and other things," the former presidential candidate said. "That's ridiculous."
But the GOP nominee for U.S. Senate argued the founding fathers intended the Second Amendment to allow people to carry the types of weapons "customarily carried in those days by ordinary infantry soldiers."
"And, yes, does that mean that in this day and age people would have the right to have access to the kind of the weapons our ordinary infantry people have access to? With proper training and so forth to make sure that they could handle them successfully, that's exactly what was meant."
Keyes made the remarks at a news conference he called to attack the "ideological extremism" of his Democratic opponent, state Sen. Barack Obama.
The Republican lit into Obama for voting against a bill in Springfield earlier this year that would have allowed people who use handguns to fend off home invaders or attackers to argue self-defense as a possible legal defense against prosecution for violating any local anti-firearm possession ordinances.
The measure passed the Legislature with bi-partisan support, but Gov. Blagojevich vetoed it last week.
Keyes called Obama's vote against the measure an "appalling . . . lack of common sense."
"This seems to be a man who is absolutely determined to make the world safe for criminals, while making sure that law-abiding citizens have no opportunity to defend themselves against the criminals," Keyes said.
Keyes said he supports a system in which guns would be treated similarly to automobiles, with people being required to undergo different levels of training before they would be allowed to own and carry various sorts of weapons.
"I always remind -- even people who support the Second Amendment -- that it has two parts: the right to keep and bear" arms, Keyes said. " 'Bear' means to carry, to carry around. . . . I think it has been proven empirically that . . . allowing law-abiding citizens this access to conceal-carry actually reduces crime."
Keyes said he owns two firearms himself: a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol and a .38-caliber "six-shooter." But he said he does not keep them at his new home in Calumet City.
Keyes only indirectly answered a reporter's question about whether he would "be comfortable if the entire society was walking around with Uzis, as long as they were properly trained."
"Have you ever been to Israel?" Keyes asked the reporter. "Because if you've ever been to Israel, you wouldn't ask that question. And in the midst of terrifying dangers, you walk around the streets of Israel and you see every other person carrying arms and Uzis and so forth and so on, and believe me, you do not feel less safe on that account."
Machine guns, or fully automatic weapons, are firearms that fire multiple shots with a single pull of the trigger.
Thomas Ahern, a spokesman for the Chicago division of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said private individuals can only own such weapons if they apply with the bureau and clear a series of hurdles, including a background check, fingerprinting and the OK of local law enforcement officials. Additional paperwork is required any time the weapon is to be transported.
"It is heavily regulated," Ahern said.
A spokesman for Obama defended the Democrat's record on guns.
"Certainly he believes in the Second Amendment, but he also believes in common-sense gun safety laws, such as the federal ban on military-style assault weapons." said spokesman Robert Gibbs. "If Alan Keyes truly was concerned about public safety, that would be his position, as well."
That's the whole thing.
Why is Alan the only candidate who can bring himself to say this?
Thank You.
No, I do not hold the Tribe position because Tribe is reading into the amendment his ideas of state militias.
I do, however, hold the opinion that there is no freedom without responsibility. And that it is not reasonable to expect in this day and age that when people interact with potentially dangerous objects that they have some basic level of competence.
I DO NOT support - and I don't read it that Keyes does - ANY sort of gun registration or taxation. I DO concede the reasonableness of licensing for gun ownership. Or call it "certification" if you like. NOT as government "permission" - anymore than my marriage license means I have the government's permission to marry - but as the recognition that I have the ability to responsibly exercises my rights.
This would give no ammo to the gun grabbers because the fact that I hold certification does not inform them whether I own a gun or a dozen guns...simply that I'm certified to.
I fail to see how this gives the Feds any more authority over gun ownership than it currently has. Because if one says "It gives them a list of who to look for when they take the guns" then I will submit to you that when you filled out all that paperwork, they already got your name.
I honestly think Alan Keyes is different from your average pandering politician.
Boy, you sure hit the nail on the head with that one. I agree that the above issue is a major problem. You may want to go to my FR homepage and click on the "The Law" if you have never read it. Very short, only fifty pages or so.
Alan Keyes is only unelectable if the media is allowed to continue its control of the discourse in this country. Those days are drawing to a close.
I'm just trying to get down to where the rubber meets the road.
Your continued lies and misrepresentations are truly getting tiresome, you haven't read every one of my posts, and if you have, your reading comprehension is that of a three year-old.
I object to Keyes running for very specific reasons, Keyes has a problem with his electability in Illinois, and I have other issues surrounding his elegibility, in light of his own words on the subject. I also disagree with Keyes on the idea of reparations.
My comments of Specter ragarded his electability.
The constitution doesn't give you rights, it keeps the government from infringing on inalienable rights. A little nitpicky perhaps, but the reason Democrats don't give a rat's ass about it is because they don't understand it.
When you buy a house, a car, a boat, you must register your purchase with the government so that proper taxation can take place. When you drive a vehicle, you must pay sales tax on it, and yearly licensing fees, A.K.A. license plate. You must also pass a government proficiency test to obtain a driving permit before you can legally use the vehicle for its intended purpose.
Keyes says that he supports a system in which guns would be treated similarly to automobiles, in other words, they should be taxed, registered, and your ability to used them licensed by the government, at least that what he seems to be saying now.
You apparently disagree with Keyes on this subject.
Bush is infinitely better for America than Kerry (or anyone else the Dims could put forward), but I am not 100% satisfied with him. I would prefer a more strict constructionist and someone less accomodating with the Dims. He is for less partisan bickering (which only means less from OUR side.) I support more skull knocking.
According to this report, Keyes believes that guns should be treated similarly to automobiles.
Registered, taxed, and your ability to use them controlled by the State via proficiency testing and licensing.
I just went to firearmsnews.com, and followed a link to another story on this issue on abc7chicago.com.
Like this story the story featured on firearms.com, a pro Second Amendment site, also comments on Alan's comparison of gun ownership to automobile ownership, and the words "properly trained and tested" came up again.
It appeared to me he was licensing USERS.
In the latter case, it keeps Big Brother from knowing who IS armed...merely who is legally allowed to be. The holding of a wepons license would not be - in itself - evidence that one actually had a wepon.
I'm not going to pretend to know how Keyes comes up with the proposals he's been making because I'm not a mindreader.
As a candidate, maybe he sees some potential voters out there who want reparations and so he offers them reparations, but he offers them reparations in the form of a "tax cut" so as to make it easier for conservatives to swallow.
And, again as a candidate, maybe he sees some potential voters out there who want machine guns and so he offers them machine guns, but he offers them machine guns in the form of a gun licensing system so as to make it easier for liberals to swallow.
In other words, maybe the Constitution doesn't have anything to do with how he designs these proposals.
Couldn't it be just that simple?
This is exactly what the United Nations is attempting to forbid in the New World Order. Member States (countries) would strongly control small firearms. UN approved police, military and civilian security employees would be the only ones permitted to carry firearms, then only while in the performance of their work.
This goal has not changed one iota since its inception.
(This is why I appear to come apart at the seams when I see our President doing anything that supports the United Nations in any way shape or form.)
We will not succeed in keep any of the Constitutional Amendments by electing anyone who wants to see the New World Order Rising
Keyes is one of the very damn few political persons who have a full picture of what is happening in America.
Sadly, I don't think he will get elected because there is too many pro NWO legislators who will fight to keep him out of the Senate.
That's correct. The magnitude os the disagreement though is miniscule in comparison with the disagreement I have with Obama an IL politicians in general. In fact the disagreement with them is irreconsilable.
The last clown that ran for the Senate and gained the seat over Carol Braun did the same thing other politicians have in IL. They said one thing before the election to gain the confidence and support of gun owners, then retracted it in the weeks following the win.
Keyes is running for that guy's seat. Fitzgerald(R) announced after the win and a few days after his son was born, that he did not want his kid growing up in a land that allowed ordinary folks to own and posses guns. I knew when I saw pics of the guy's campaign parties, with fancy table clothes, umbrellas and tea sets the guy was a BSer. Keyes is not that kind of person.
I agree that Keyes is a man of integrity, but I do not share your optimism.
Politics is a weird form of parasitism, like they say, politics = poly ticks!
They NEED to convince us that WE NEED THEM.
Given that scenario, if they did their job, they would be out of work. So they NEED crisis. They NEED unending warfare. They NEED unemployment and social disorder.
Just my take on things. I haven't voted in years.
Well, in Israel it is not exactly polite, but it sure is a safe one. I would not fear my wife walking across town at 3 am. As for terrorism we had a pair of them dress up like IDF soldiers and go right downtown to the shopping district. The both pulled their guns and started shooting up the bus stops. Within 5 minutes the gunfire was over, it was like trying to pull of an armed robbery in a cop bar. Big mistake. One actually got away, the other was dropped by a civilan with a pistol. Just think how long it takes to clear up a madman with a gun in the US. Normally they block off the area for a few hours, a big standoff, lots of news coverage. In Israel, pop pop pop, crack pop and it is over.
Laws don't stop criminals from getting guns, only victims. That is obvious to honest men, but not the point of politicians. Politicans that fear honest citizens arn't.
And of course, YES, I do think this should apply to both sides. If you think I am wrong in calling for civility, so be it. I've been wrong before.
It takes a few weeks getting used to, but now frankly I like it. Where else can you live in a gun show, have ZERO street crime and walk in the parks at any hour of the night with no fear. In 4 years I have never even heard about any muggings, armed robberys, bank holdups, or gang problems in the Capitol City of Israel. Compare that to Washington DC.
Jews got it right.
OK, I'll be the one to ask.
Why not?
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