Posted on 08/25/2004 2:09:41 PM PDT by yonif
Declaring "the front line of the war against terror once again involves the citizens," Republican Alan Keyes said Tuesday he believes the U.S. Constitution grants properly trained private individuals the right to own and carry machine guns.
"You're not talking about giving citizens access to atom bombs and other things," the former presidential candidate said. "That's ridiculous."
But the GOP nominee for U.S. Senate argued the founding fathers intended the Second Amendment to allow people to carry the types of weapons "customarily carried in those days by ordinary infantry soldiers."
"And, yes, does that mean that in this day and age people would have the right to have access to the kind of the weapons our ordinary infantry people have access to? With proper training and so forth to make sure that they could handle them successfully, that's exactly what was meant."
Keyes made the remarks at a news conference he called to attack the "ideological extremism" of his Democratic opponent, state Sen. Barack Obama.
The Republican lit into Obama for voting against a bill in Springfield earlier this year that would have allowed people who use handguns to fend off home invaders or attackers to argue self-defense as a possible legal defense against prosecution for violating any local anti-firearm possession ordinances.
The measure passed the Legislature with bi-partisan support, but Gov. Blagojevich vetoed it last week.
Keyes called Obama's vote against the measure an "appalling . . . lack of common sense."
"This seems to be a man who is absolutely determined to make the world safe for criminals, while making sure that law-abiding citizens have no opportunity to defend themselves against the criminals," Keyes said.
Keyes said he supports a system in which guns would be treated similarly to automobiles, with people being required to undergo different levels of training before they would be allowed to own and carry various sorts of weapons.
"I always remind -- even people who support the Second Amendment -- that it has two parts: the right to keep and bear" arms, Keyes said. " 'Bear' means to carry, to carry around. . . . I think it has been proven empirically that . . . allowing law-abiding citizens this access to conceal-carry actually reduces crime."
Keyes said he owns two firearms himself: a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol and a .38-caliber "six-shooter." But he said he does not keep them at his new home in Calumet City.
Keyes only indirectly answered a reporter's question about whether he would "be comfortable if the entire society was walking around with Uzis, as long as they were properly trained."
"Have you ever been to Israel?" Keyes asked the reporter. "Because if you've ever been to Israel, you wouldn't ask that question. And in the midst of terrifying dangers, you walk around the streets of Israel and you see every other person carrying arms and Uzis and so forth and so on, and believe me, you do not feel less safe on that account."
Machine guns, or fully automatic weapons, are firearms that fire multiple shots with a single pull of the trigger.
Thomas Ahern, a spokesman for the Chicago division of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said private individuals can only own such weapons if they apply with the bureau and clear a series of hurdles, including a background check, fingerprinting and the OK of local law enforcement officials. Additional paperwork is required any time the weapon is to be transported.
"It is heavily regulated," Ahern said.
A spokesman for Obama defended the Democrat's record on guns.
"Certainly he believes in the Second Amendment, but he also believes in common-sense gun safety laws, such as the federal ban on military-style assault weapons." said spokesman Robert Gibbs. "If Alan Keyes truly was concerned about public safety, that would be his position, as well."
Most any of those will do quite nicely! :-)
My best friend and business partner's forebear, Robert Morris, signer of both the Declaration and the Constitution, privately owned warships.
Mortaged them all to the French in order to feed and equip the troops at Valley Forge, though.
Never recovered his financial empire and basically died a pauper.
Pretty damned good investment, though. I have no doubt he would agree.
I knew you weren't saying I was unfair. I was just trying to make sure no one else laid that particular label on me. : )
They'd be hearing from me if they did! You can be firm, but you're always very fair. ;-)
Firm. Yeah. That's what they call me. ; )
If they did, they privately owned CANNONS, crew served weaponry, which you can own today.
So much for all this silly fretting about whether Keyes supports "training" while Obama supports a ban on the transfer or purchase of semi-automatic weapons.
To Obama's credit, at least he doesn't use that silly assault weapons nonsense, he want's your 10/22 and he'll get it.
But Keyes supports training :<(
Go OBAMA, no guns, no training.
Not directed to you, but thanks for a great example of what's likely allowed under the 2nd amendment.
Damn, this guy reminds me of Orrin "Boobie" Hatch!
One minute he is a nut, supporting "reparations", then he makes it clear the he (almost) fully supports the second amendment?
Machine guns are already legal in something like thirty-seven states, so long as buyers go through all the unconstitutional paperwork.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Define "well regulated"
Definition of a "Machine Gun" is any firearm capable of firing more than a single shot with one pull on the trigger.
Legal MP-5's run about 12K-14K these days.
If you are in any of the states that allow them they are not that hard to find.
Most MG owners start out with a less expensive gun, MAC-10's run about $2,500 these days, STEN's around $3,500, etc.
A G.E. Mini-Gun is about 250K without accessories, just in case you are rich!
Laurence Tribe...is that you?
Sterling, $6,000
Grease-Gun, $14,000
The freedom to own any gun you can afford, PRICELESS!
Define "well regulated"
The crappy thing about this is that if the unconstitutional 1986 MG ban were repealed, a Sterling would run about $300 + the $200 transfer tax. FAL's would be $650 and belt fed M1919A4's would be $800.
Psst....
We haven't been a "constitutional republic" for a long long time now...
More's the pity.
... as long as he insists on NOT allowing the government to be the arbiter of who gets to use what... I am AOK with exactly what you said.
and the offshoot of that article needs to be addressed at the NRA level.
thanks for letting us air it out.
PS... when's the last day for the assault weapons ban legislation to finally crash?
is it here yet? I thought it was like last week.
Not quite correct.
It actually referred to efforts to ensure that the militia groups carried similar equipment. Training was a goal, and the militia did "Drill" fairly often.
But "Well Regulated" mainly referred to efforts to ensure that each militia member in a particular band had their weapons in the same caliber (bore diameter) and lock type.
This made it much easier for members to share ammunition (flints, bullets, patches, and powder) if they were called to fight.
So far as I know no one was forced to buy new equipment of a different caliber if what they had was not the local standard, but they were encouraged to do so.
In modern parlance it could be argued that "Well Regulated Militia" means that all American males of militia age should be expected to own a fully automatic M-16 rifle in .223/5.56 caliber and a Beretta 9mm pistol.
Well, I only have tow things - 1, it's a specific part of his 2 amendment positions that are my issue with him, so it's an appropriate thread to discuss it on, and 2, I dont need your permision to post on threads. ;)
I know the choice is clear - I also believe Keyes is more ideal of a candidate than Obama, BUT I have an issue with one area that I would really like clarified.
I'm not anti-Keyes, by any stretch of the imagination, but I also believe that no one, not even Keyes, is above criticism on issues...
I was just asking for clarification on a specific Keyes position - and to see if you agred with it or not.
Nothing accusatory or anything like that.
I really do hope you are right...
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