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Keyes: Constitution protects machine gun ownership [describes Israel as an example]
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | August 25, 2004 | SCOTT FORNEK

Posted on 08/25/2004 2:09:41 PM PDT by yonif

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To: fso301; Waywardson

Most any of those will do quite nicely! :-)

My best friend and business partner's forebear, Robert Morris, signer of both the Declaration and the Constitution, privately owned warships.

Mortaged them all to the French in order to feed and equip the troops at Valley Forge, though.

Never recovered his financial empire and basically died a pauper.

Pretty damned good investment, though. I have no doubt he would agree.


341 posted on 08/25/2004 7:54:49 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (A REPUBLIC, IF YOU CAN KEEP IT...)
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To: Scenic Sounds

I knew you weren't saying I was unfair. I was just trying to make sure no one else laid that particular label on me. : )


342 posted on 08/25/2004 7:57:34 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Some of my best friends are white, middle-class males.)
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
I knew you weren't saying I was unfair. I was just trying to make sure no one else laid that particular label on me. : )

They'd be hearing from me if they did! You can be firm, but you're always very fair. ;-)

343 posted on 08/25/2004 7:58:45 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: Scenic Sounds

Firm. Yeah. That's what they call me. ; )


344 posted on 08/25/2004 7:59:40 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Some of my best friends are white, middle-class males.)
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To: EternalVigilance
My best friend and business partner's forebear, Robert Morris, signer of both the Declaration and the Constitution, privately owned warships.

If they did, they privately owned CANNONS, crew served weaponry, which you can own today.

So much for all this silly fretting about whether Keyes supports "training" while Obama supports a ban on the transfer or purchase of semi-automatic weapons.

To Obama's credit, at least he doesn't use that silly assault weapons nonsense, he want's your 10/22 and he'll get it.

But Keyes supports training :<(

Go OBAMA, no guns, no training.

Not directed to you, but thanks for a great example of what's likely allowed under the 2nd amendment.

345 posted on 08/25/2004 8:00:40 PM PDT by SJackson (You'd be amazed the number of people who wanna introduce themselves to you in the men's room J.Kerry)
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To: fso301
Sweet post! I happen to be a Class III Uzi owning FReeper, along with Galil .223 AR, HK-91-A3, SAR-48 (FAL Variant) and various side arms. When somebody asks why I own firearms with these capabilities, I always respond, "The same reason you own a car that goes faster than the speed limit... because it's not against the law." Not to mention, machine gun shoots are a blast. I used to go to Knob Creek Range twice a year!
346 posted on 08/25/2004 8:03:59 PM PDT by DocRock (I've been MIA due to Charley, but I'm all better now!)
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To: yonif

Damn, this guy reminds me of Orrin "Boobie" Hatch!

One minute he is a nut, supporting "reparations", then he makes it clear the he (almost) fully supports the second amendment?

Machine guns are already legal in something like thirty-seven states, so long as buyers go through all the unconstitutional paperwork.


347 posted on 08/25/2004 8:14:08 PM PDT by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Keyes believes that upon satisfactory completion of training, government licensing would allow citizens to carry weapons.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Define "well regulated"

348 posted on 08/25/2004 8:17:39 PM PDT by WillRain ("Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.")
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To: MD_Willington_1976

Definition of a "Machine Gun" is any firearm capable of firing more than a single shot with one pull on the trigger.

Legal MP-5's run about 12K-14K these days.
If you are in any of the states that allow them they are not that hard to find.

Most MG owners start out with a less expensive gun, MAC-10's run about $2,500 these days, STEN's around $3,500, etc.
A G.E. Mini-Gun is about 250K without accessories, just in case you are rich!


349 posted on 08/25/2004 8:20:36 PM PDT by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: WillRain

Laurence Tribe...is that you?


350 posted on 08/25/2004 8:20:44 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Patria, pero sin amo)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Sterling, $6,000
Grease-Gun, $14,000

The freedom to own any gun you can afford, PRICELESS!


351 posted on 08/25/2004 8:26:38 PM PDT by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: Chad Fairbanks

Define "well regulated"


352 posted on 08/25/2004 8:30:50 PM PDT by WillRain ("Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.")
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To: Richard-SIA

The crappy thing about this is that if the unconstitutional 1986 MG ban were repealed, a Sterling would run about $300 + the $200 transfer tax. FAL's would be $650 and belt fed M1919A4's would be $800.


353 posted on 08/25/2004 8:31:18 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn't be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
The day we have to go to the government to get permission to exercize our second amendment rights is the day we cease being a constitutional republic...

Psst....
We haven't been a "constitutional republic" for a long long time now...

More's the pity.

354 posted on 08/25/2004 8:38:33 PM PDT by WillRain ("Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.")
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To: Jim Robinson

... as long as he insists on NOT allowing the government to be the arbiter of who gets to use what... I am AOK with exactly what you said.

and the offshoot of that article needs to be addressed at the NRA level.

thanks for letting us air it out.


355 posted on 08/25/2004 8:40:04 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (the madridification of our election is now officially underway.)
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To: Jim Robinson

PS... when's the last day for the assault weapons ban legislation to finally crash?
is it here yet? I thought it was like last week.


356 posted on 08/25/2004 8:41:36 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (the madridification of our election is now officially underway.)
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To: EternalVigilance

Not quite correct.

It actually referred to efforts to ensure that the militia groups carried similar equipment. Training was a goal, and the militia did "Drill" fairly often.

But "Well Regulated" mainly referred to efforts to ensure that each militia member in a particular band had their weapons in the same caliber (bore diameter) and lock type.
This made it much easier for members to share ammunition (flints, bullets, patches, and powder) if they were called to fight.

So far as I know no one was forced to buy new equipment of a different caliber if what they had was not the local standard, but they were encouraged to do so.

In modern parlance it could be argued that "Well Regulated Militia" means that all American males of militia age should be expected to own a fully automatic M-16 rifle in .223/5.56 caliber and a Beretta 9mm pistol.



Replies to this point should be interesting! ;-)


357 posted on 08/25/2004 8:45:23 PM PDT by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: SJackson
If Keyes gets your goat on other issues, or as a candidate (I admit he's not ideal) save it for non 2nd amendment threads.

Well, I only have tow things - 1, it's a specific part of his 2 amendment positions that are my issue with him, so it's an appropriate thread to discuss it on, and 2, I dont need your permision to post on threads. ;)

I know the choice is clear - I also believe Keyes is more ideal of a candidate than Obama, BUT I have an issue with one area that I would really like clarified.

I'm not anti-Keyes, by any stretch of the imagination, but I also believe that no one, not even Keyes, is above criticism on issues...

358 posted on 08/25/2004 8:45:54 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I think the mistake a lot of us make is thinking the state-appointed shrink is our friend.)
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To: Graybeard58

I was just asking for clarification on a specific Keyes position - and to see if you agred with it or not.

Nothing accusatory or anything like that.


359 posted on 08/25/2004 8:47:26 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I think the mistake a lot of us make is thinking the state-appointed shrink is our friend.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Fine. You have the right. And I do not believe Keyes wants to infringe on that right.

I really do hope you are right...

360 posted on 08/25/2004 8:48:08 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (I think the mistake a lot of us make is thinking the state-appointed shrink is our friend.)
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