Posted on 08/13/2004 5:24:43 AM PDT by Hatteras
Mom Sent To Jail For Smoking Around Kids
POSTED: 6:43 am EDT August 13, 2004
BOWLING GREEN, Va. -- A woman was sentenced Thursday to 10 days in jail for defying a court order not to smoke around her children.
Tamara Silvius was banned last year from smoking around the youths, now ages 8 and 10, as part of a custody arrangement with her ex-husband.
(Excerpt) Read more at wral.com ...
Well first, CSM, we have to convince him that a Nanny State is NOT the way to cure the ills of society - that more laws and government interference is NOT always the way to "fix" things - especially things that are not broken... I'm thinking that is going to be the toughest nut to crack.
"When have I said anything about protecting the RIGHTS. I've said protecting the HEALTH against the whims of a few."
You actually make this statement, then claim to be a "staunch conservative"? Why don't you actually read the constitution!
Just like every ordinance for building codes. Same thing.
I can accept health, safety and fire codes. A kitchen fire or salmonella is a clear danger. Dining with smokers in the room may be some kind of unmeasurable risk, but it sure isn't a clear danger.
I sympathize with your experience with secondhand smoke. My mom smoked and now sleeps with an oxygen tube and can barely walk down the street. But I think there is a vast difference between smoking and/or living in a smoke-filled room for decades and dining out. It may not be pleasant for those sensitive to smoke ( I am one), but where is the evidence that it truly endangers public health? I think you need some good evidence before bringing in police powers against a business owner.
Not really - Building codes specify the manner in which the structure should be built, what it should be able to withstand etc... That is a reasonable use of regulation.
However, with smoking bans the rights of individuals to freely make choices that do not cause harm to others (discomfort, maybe, but harm has NOT been proven - and ther is no constitutional right to 'comfort') is affected.
Think about it.
Go back and read my post to you. What I said is that the market will be much more efficient at eliminating racism and much more efficient at ensuring minimum safety standards are meant. If the market calls for a "white/black" only private business, so be it.
Your questions regarding marriage are irrelevant to the discussion as it has nothing to do with private property.
If you can't understand my answer regarding the market forces, then you need to re-evaluate your "staunch conservativism".
Yep. But I have to go until tomorrow. I'll count on you to carry the point for the team!
My lunch break is over, so I gotta bail shortly too.
Meanwhile, I'm going to borrow a point from this guy and launch a campaign to force the Miss Black America Pageant to have a specific number of White Women competing, and use another Big Government Agency to make it happen... ;0)
"If an area has imposed building codes, clean-air laws, and segregation-free laws, then a business owner can CHOOSE to operate under those restrictions *OR* they can choose to operate the business somewhere else where the restrictions are not in force."
Once again a faulty argument. The bans that you support so rigorously, are being implemented AFTER the private property owner risks his own capital to start a business. The government changes the rules after the investment, therefore confiscating the property from the owner by not allowing him to use the property as he planned. Now, where is the constitutionally required enumeration for that confiscation?
How about it, Mr. Constitutional scholar? I gotta skate for now, but I eagerly anticipate catching up on this tomorrow.
Strawman arguement and not worthy of response.
Where you get the idea I am in favor of anarchy is totally beyond me. I have absolutely no problem with building codes and sanitation codes and fire codes - they are all necessary to protect the general public from unseen dangers.
The person chooses to engage in such behavior that IS, in fact, harmful to those around them.
And you have the proof of this? Where? If you have such definitive proof, you are the only one on the face of the planet.
To relate a business owner permitting adults to smoke cigarettes in his/her establishment with abortion providers is absolutely disgusting. And I know a lot of conservative business owners that feel the same way.
Anyone that must loudly proclaim they are more conservative than someone else has some issues, IMO.
Your claim of MY ignorance speaks more about you than it does about me - good day.
Statistics and Data Sciences Group ProjectsOak Ridge Labs,TN on SECOND HAND SMOKE
"I think any anti who tries to dismiss the findings of the U.S.
Department of Energy labs at Oak Ridge, should be confronted with the question: "Are you saying that DOE researchers committed scientific fraud and that their findings on ETS exposure are untrue?"
Our Department of Energy at Oak Ridge did research on second hand smoke. Won't you take a minute to read their findings?!
Who is asking for a Nanny State? Again, no me.
Your litmus test for a conservative has already proved a failure.
The USA is a balance of personal freedom and common sense laws for the protection of all. Sorry, that's how this country was founded and your whining and screaming because you can't smoke a Camel unfiltered with your Big Mac ain't going to corrupt this country.
Clean Air laws do not restrict the level of personal freedom in this country in any significant way. Sure they do for the smokers, but that's a specific. The actual level of freedoms is not changed. These laws simply corral this behavior which harms others under the umbrella of our other laws which perform the same function.
No increase toward a nanny state, except to you knee-jerk anarchists/libertarians who want no laws whatsoever.
Grow up.
I never heard the garage story before. Thanks.
The entire thing boggles my mind. I had 2 grandchildren for a night this weekend. None of the 4 parents smoke but they know the kids love to do sleepovers at Grammy's.
I smoked in the kitchen with an exhaust fan running and everything worked out fine.
Needs repeating!!!!!!
I have thought about it. Hence my reasoned argument.
Again -- and here is the point you anarchists keep missing. I can handle disagreement. But to brainlessly call anti-smokers liberal is completely ignorant and dishonest.
No matter how blind you want to be, I am a conservative and my position is completely in line with conservative ideology (even if it isn't with your insanely narrow flavor).
Thank you my friend! :)~~
I think you need some good evidence before bringing in police powers against a business owner.
Thank you AGAIN!! Some people get it Most do not. :(
Right on,She. The first thing I packed when I went to the hospital for my 5 kids was my cigs.Yep,we smoked in the hospital room.
Five healthy,happy, now middle aged, non-smoking adults resulted from my smoking.
I guess I did some things right. (And Dad smoked too.)
Talk to you tomorrow, CSM. Thanks!
Well, this business of smoking is killing our youth is hog wash. And I hate when I hear this.
And you KNOW the smokers in a car inside the garage will live on. The guy in the car inside his garage with car running will not. (That thought makes me sick! )
But anyway.........
And those kitchen exhaust fans are wonderful! Good for you!!!
Why bother? Facts matter little - it's all about "feelings"...
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