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To: Myrddin

The .357 still has the best (non head/neck) single shot stop percentage of all calibers. Bigger's not better. The .44 mag often will move too quickly & too deeply for hydrostatic shock to occur. The scalloped SJ on the remington transfers quickly. Big time immediate damage. I imagine it's the same way with your Hydroshok.


1,213 posted on 08/12/2004 6:39:58 PM PDT by HipShot (EOM couldn't cut the head off a beer with a chainsaw)
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To: HipShot
Specifically the .357 magnum 125gr JHP has the best one shot stop record, primarily because most cops were issued that round for a number of years. MANY years in fact. Given enough time, any round would collect impressive results. The problem with this load is that it has serious recoil, and dramatic muzzle flash which tends to impede the follow up shot, especially at night.

Caliber and bullet weight aren't as important today as bullet configuration. Hydra-Shok was the first of the high speed/low drag wonder-rounds. Next came the infamous Black Talon and the now defunct nyclad which insured good expansion from snub nosed .38 sp standard pressure loads.

Then came the prefrangible Glaser and MagSafe loads which have been phenomenal in warm weather but tend to break up too early when the cold brings heavy jackets.

For the 45ACP, Speer has had a great load. The JHP nose is so wide and gaping it has been dubbed "The Flying Ashtray." But it has had feeding problems in some guns. Hydra Shok is building an impressive record for the 45.

1,216 posted on 08/12/2004 6:57:59 PM PDT by ExSoldier (M1A: Any mission. Any conditions. Any foe. At any range.)
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To: HipShot
The .357 still has the best (non head/neck) single shot stop percentage of all calibers.

Only the 185 gr JHP in .40 S&W has a better record than the 125 gr JHP in .357 mag. Fackler and some other real world stats put it almost 1% better. A fine choice if you like a semi-auto. I'm too lazy to chase the brass. I always know where to find the fired revolver brass :-)

1,217 posted on 08/12/2004 6:58:49 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: HipShot

You see how the .30 Carbine cartridge is so maligned (e.g., Chosin Reservoir), yet it has greater energy than the .357 Magnum (The .30 has ~971 ft/lbs at the muzzle, while the .357 has ~650, both FMJ's).

We go with the 3.5" S&W stainless Model 6X .357, a Springfield stainless 1911 .45, and a Rem. 870/Wilson/Scattergun for peacetime home defense; but I roll with a Beretta 92FS, "old" mags, with Crimson Trace set at 7.5 yards, so I'm not advocating for the .30 Carbine.

I'm thinking about timing of any terrorist rampages, and I think that we won't have time to return to our homes or places of secretion and retreive our defensive tools.

Thus the terrorists will be faced with only the weapons which good Americans have "on hand," and they know it. Mostly just pistols, though many of us can handle a pistol. So it might be a good idea to have an inexpensive .30 Carbine in the trunk, with some appropriate magazines, in order to assist the LEO's if an attack takes place.


1,255 posted on 08/12/2004 9:41:21 PM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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