Hmong Journey

mercury news | July 18, 2004 | Ben Stocking

[television is just wrong]

Posted on Sun, Jul. 18, 2004

Hmong journey

By Ben Stocking

Mercury News Vietnam Bureau

WAT THAM KRABOK, Thailand - Teng Yang and his family live on the other side of the earth from the home they will soon make in California. But in many ways, they inhabit another universe.

If they get sick, they slaughter a pig and two chickens as offerings to the spirits. A 13-year-old bride, a man with two wives -- these are accepted social arrangements in the dusty squatters' colony where they have spent the past 11 years of their drifters' lives.

Teng and his family -- a Hmong clan of 27 people from the jungles of Laos -- are moving to Fresno, a middle-class, Central Valley town whose social mores will be as baffling to them as the drive-through line at McDonald's.

Over the next several months, 15,000 other Laotian Hmong who live at this makeshift refugee camp will follow them, most settling in California, Minnesota and Wisconsin, the three U.S. states with the largest established Hmong populations.

Teng's younger brother Tong and his wife arrived in Fresno last week, and the rest of the family will follow over the summer and fall.

[taxed2death]

Actually no, we let them hang out to dry for the last 20 years. They live in squalid refugee camps in Thailand. From what I understand, they fought bravely beside us...I'm sure there are many on this BB who could elaborate on that matter.
We don't "owe" many people anything....but it would seem like we do owe these people for helping us out. I'm not against taking in war refugees, which is exactly what these people are.

[taxed2death]

we are "bursting at the seams" because of ILLEGAL immigration.

Taking in war refugees who fought besides us is an honerable thing to do. IMHO.

[taxed2death]

"How many of these Hmong were even alive during the Viet Nam war. Good point. Probably half, perhaps less. I'd be willing to bet that many of these people were born in refugee camps in Thailand. Born there, because their parents basically had no country to go home to. So, you see, because we shafted them 30 years ago, we just MIGHT owe their kids the chance of a decent life, instead of no life in what can only be described as a concentration camp.

If you owe someone, you owe someone.....at least that's how it is in MY book. And I'm a freakin' tight a$$ed MF when it comes to tax money, believe me. I'd rather see this happen than a 15 BILLION dollar "gift" to Africa (AIDS) for morons who can't keep their peckers in their pants.

[taxed2death]

Legal immigration has rarely been a problem in the US. It's the 12 to 10 million illegals roaming around that make up the majority of the "immigration" problems the US is currently suffering.

I am 110% against illegal "immigration. What our country SHOULD do is give these Hmong an intensive 6 month crash course on "American" history and culture. That would be the best thing we could do for them.

[skeeter]

As the defenders of illegal immigration sometimes point out, the 911 hijackers where 'legal' in the strict sense. I think our immigration policies in general could use a good hard look.

Its beside the point of the article, but its hard to believe now but not very long ago simply being an economic refuge wasn't enough to gaurantee a life in the US. Now it seems to be the only reason. The upshot is I think the only emotional tie many new residents have to America is they think its a good place to make money while they pine for the really 'good life' back home.

I guess I'm a little more hardline about this because here in CA I've so often run into 'legal' newcomers who apparently have nothing good to say about my country & countrymen.

[television is just wrong]

The feds have been negotiating for a long time. Not too much background has been given except of course they had no where else to go.

Polygamy is illegal. A Mormon man is in jail for the same thing today. He had 14 wives and 32 children. This situation should be dealt with right away. They think that their lifestyle is acceptable.

[television is just wrong]

Nor do I have anything against these people. However, their polygamist beliefs are inconsistent with our culture. How can you allow that to co-exist.

[tortoise]

Polygamy is common to virtually all Asian cultures, even nominally modernized ones. For one reason or another, it just never pops up on the radar of the west. Of the various Asian girls I've dated (and most of the major Asian cultures are represented in that sample), essentially all had relatives with more than one wife.

The first couple times it surprised me, as there are a number of Asian cultures that don't come across like that -- I assumed otherwise. But I've definitely started to realize with travel and experience that monogamy as we normally think of it is an almost purely European notion.

[television is just wrong]

Yes, that is ok for them in their native country. However it is illegal in this country. What happens to the 13 year old bride?

Remember they are now over here.

[tortoise]

Yes, that is ok for them in their native country. However it is illegal in this country. What happens to the 13 year old bride?

That is still not illegal this country. Even if the State doesn't recognize the polygamous marriage, you still have de facto polygamy. There are many relatively trivial ways to work around this, and many do. For example, they will only be officially married (per US guidelines) to one wife, but they will still live with both (or depending on the culture, may live in different houses).

Arrangements like this are far more common (occasionally even among Euro-folk) than most people probably believe. You never hear about it because it is not technical polygamy only de facto polygamy, and therefore not a crime in most locales. And quite frankly, it disappears below the noise floor of normal American behavior in their nominally "monogamous" marriages.

[Dr. Marten]

"Our government runs to give the benefits to them.
they also practice polygamy so that they can produce big families to boot."

Some of you people on here sound rediculous. I did a brief study on the Hmong people while completing my degree in Asian studies and one thing that I have to see mentioned on this thread is that their benefits from the US government are limited to something like 2 years.

So what if they practice polygamy? Just because you or I may not agree with it does not make it wrong. I get a kick out of listening to people on FR who are so narcisitic and think the way they do. Especially when a large portion of the people who do think that way, have never even left the borders of this country.

[Kozak]

How many you gonna take in your state?

Here's a slice of Wisconsins experience......

April 1994 The Ordeal of Immigration in Wausau Since 1970 the majority of population growth in the United States has come from immigrants and their descendants. Demographers predict that this trend will intensify in the new century if federal laws remain unchanged. For a look at a possible American future, consider the fate of a small midwestern city by Roy Beck It all began simply enough, when a few churches and individuals in Wausau, Wisconsin, decided to resettle some Southeast Asian refugees during the late 1970s. To most residents, it seemed like a nice thing to do. Nobody meant to plant the seeds for a social transformation. But this small and private charitable gesture inadvertently set into motion events that many residents today feel are spinning out of control. Wausau--the county seat of the nation's champion milk-producing county--has learned that once the influx starts, there's little chance to stop it. Regardless of how many newcomers failed to find jobs in this north-central Wisconsin city of 37,500, or how abraded the social fabric became, the immigrant population just kept growing. LINK

[Kozak]

their benefits from the US government are limited to something like 2 years.

Yeah wherupon the people of the STATE where they reside pick up the tab. I deal with them on a daily basis. Most have Medical assistance when they show up in the ER. My wife worked for our county and was very well versed in just how many of them were doing an excellent job of scamming for benefits.

If they come, they come, just don't expect those of us picking up the tab to jump up and down, hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya.

[television is just wrong]

People with attitudes as stated, are the reason this nation is morally bankrupt. We are losing our civilization one step at a time. Families are in crisis, and "polygamy" is the answer, opening up our country to every form of lifestyle will sure fix it.

[Dr. Marten]

Wrong. They are given that time to find the means of supporting themselves. Afterwards, their benefits are gone! I do not know in what fashion you deal with them, but that is how it is.

[Dr. Marten]

Their cultural beliefs have been practiced longer than this nation has been a country. I didn't say that embracing their belief was the thing to do, I simply said that just because you and I don't agree with it, that doesn't make it wrong.

I also believe that if they or anyone else comes to our country, then they need to adapt to our beliefs and our rule of law.

[Lulu]

I agree. These people were given temporary refuge in Tibet. At the end of a certain length of time, they would be put back over the border. At that point, they would have been killed. I suppose all of the people on this subject think that to kill them would have been the most humane thing that could be done for them with our Christian morals of today. Just like so many good "Christians" of today in this country think that killing our own offspring is the Christian thing to do, but for heaven's sakes, save those trees and whales. These godless attitudes are unbelievable.

[ThanhPhero]

If we (the US) could bring them here and basically dump them with introductions to the churches in the dump area, and refuse them any Federal and State aid until citizenship, and make citizenship a difficult but eminently doable project taking 5 years at least, then we would be gaining new hardworking and increasingly productive citizens. They would eventually be valuable additions even as we insist that they become welfare burdens. They will come out of it but it will take longer. I watched it happen to the Vietnamese nguoi Kinh in my hometown. The nonCatholics were sucked into all manner of welfare schemes against their will ( they came very suspicious of government intentions of any kind) by threats to deport them. The Catholics called the priest who called the bishop who told them to tell the welfare people to get off their doorsteps or the sheriff would be called- and then call that sheriff.

The Buddhists are in the projects hiding income just as the welfare people have traiined them to do while the Catholics are rapidly becoming prosperous as the owners of many small businesses that they have started or acquired by their own efforts. The Hmong and other mountain people from "Indochina" will all work hard and will rise if the government leaves them to it. And they will pay the social security taxes that might keep the system solvent a little longer and maybe there will be some left for my own retirement.

[ThanhPhero]

If we owe it to anyone we owe it to the Hmong. They allied with the Americans in the war and fought hard and well for US. When we abandoned them they suffered terribly and still are persecuted by the governments in Laos and Viet Nam.

[cyborg]

excellent post... I know exactly what you're talking about too.