There were no lies made to sell the war.
10 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
I see that this is a site with an intelligent conservative viewpoint. I hope you don't mind debating me, I'm neither Republican or Democrat-I choose from both parties, based on the abilities they bring to the office.
One thing you've said troubles me.
"Changed the tone and restored honor and dignity"?
No. There has been no effort to heal the deep divisions that threaten to tear our country apart.
The Bush administration attacks it's critics with little to no regard for the truth. (Kerry didn't try to "gut our intelligence" when he suggested we use it's surplus. Using the vote against funding for the war would have been more convincing as a vote against giving our troops body armor would have been more convincing had Bush not also done the same thing. He voted against a similiar plan that would have paid for itself through less upper class tax cuts)
More troubling has been the way the war against Iraq was sold to the world.
There was a strong humanitarian case to be made, as well as prosecuting an act of war (the assassination attempt). We had every reason to believe he might be hiding weapons.
There was no need to try to decieve the public, "honorable lies" be damned.
A CIA analysis indicated Saddam was likely to only use WMDs/give WMDs to Al Quada as a response to invasion and was censored, the opposite of what the administration claimed.
Ties between Saddam and 9/11 were hinted at, despite no evidece to support such a conclusion.
It made us look like we had something to hide, and gave Germany and France's leaders good press.
But worst of all, many Islamic moderates lost their credibility, as the fundamentalists were able to claim that it was proof that the Bush administration was leading a "crusade". (remember that to many, a crusade is a synonym for a Jihad.)
As a result of that,(and a poorly planned foreign policy attacked by such far left liberals as Sen Lugar, George Bush sr, and George Will) we lost much of the support we had after 9/11.
Only those who have a vested interest in reelecting the president have counted that as a triumph.
I hope you understand, for the rest of us, that's not good enough.
You like kittens?
What have you heard from GWB's mouth? Has there been any screwing going on in the Oval Office?
Just where do you want to go with that statement?
RE: "There was no need to try to decieve the public, "honorable lies" be damned.""
I'm afraid I can't help you here, as your mind has bitten off the Democrat Party propaganda sandwich, and swollowed it whole.
RE: "A CIA analysis indicated Saddam was likely to only use WMDs/give WMDs to Al Quada as a response to invasion and was censored, the opposite of what the administration claimed."
Here, again, you are missing many relevant facts. Or rather, seem to be choosing to ignore them.
RE: "Ties between Saddam and 9/11 were hinted at, despite no evidece to support such a conclusion."
Once again your facts are wrong.
Though you are a troll, I have treated you with thoughtful respect. I won't do so a second time.
You are now dismissed.
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Welcome to FR. Enjoy your stay, very quickly.
Welcome to FR. No one's laughing at you, honest.
Excuse me, but you sound like a Democratic hack. It is obvious that President Bush went out of his way in the early years of his term to extend his hand to Democrats and lower the decibel level of vitriolic rhetoric which became the norm on both sides during the Clinton years. He talked about lowering the volume repeatedly and went out of his way to court Democrats in dozens of areas. He chose largely, if not exclusively, moderate people for cabinet and high-level security posts, including three blacks (unlike Clinton), and even got Ted Kennedy to help construct his education bill. He even dared to try to bring people together in a commission on social security . . . all the Democrats could do was turn it into a political football and shoot it down, . . . the same sort of thing they have done all this past year. The make a lot of noise, stir up their buddies in the media, remain as incalcitrant as possible, and then cry "Bush is a divider." They are absurd people. You can listen to the shrill voices of people like NOW and the NAACP (led by two bomb-throwing former Democrats) if you choose, but the Administration has preferred constructive dialogue with people who can speak in a civil tongue. As for Iraq and "lies," perhaps you should turn on the television. As we speak, British and, it seems (ahem) French intelligence is now reporting that Bush was right all along on the question of Saddam's quest for nuclear power and uranium from Nigeria . . . the line he was so famously blasted for in his State of the Union. But then, if you only read the NY Times or watch NBCABCCBS or the Clinton News Network, you won't hear it. I suspect you simply don't want to hear it. But try reading a conservative publication now and then or changing the channel. You might be surprised.
Digital Brown Shirted Electronic Moby Troll alert.
We have a Digital Brown Shirted Electronic Troll on the board.
Notify the Viking Kitties!
Richard. here is a living example of the Digital Brown Shirted Digital Troll trying to divert the good news of GW.
There were no lies made to sell the war.
10 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
Incorrect. As far as "effort" goes, President Bush has invited each Democrat in Congress to the White House for individual talks. He has also watched movies with Senator Kennedy and worked with him to craft the bi-partisan "No Child Left Behind" legislation.
10 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
Those who have cut themselves off from the heart of America can either atrophy and die, or quietly return with circumspect apologies. I would welcome the few reasonable Democrats left to join us in a bipartisan effort to crush terrorism. For those of you who pander after Moore, Chomsky, Nader, Couric, Sontag, and McDermott: don't let the screen door hit you on the backside because we don't mind if you leave and never come back.
And mistakes or not, if you're not thrilled that Saddam Hussein is sitting behind bars waiting for justice, maybe you should choose Iran or North Korea as your destination.
The rest of us are only too happy that Saddam is gone. Join us -- or not. History is on our side, though. Try to keep up, or just get out of the way.
No, not ties to 9/11 per se, but rather, ties between al qaeda and Iraq were mentioned. That's not a subtle difference. Abu Nidal was in a Baghdad hospital, Ansar al-Islam operated in Iraq's northern regions, Zarqawi was likewise in Iraq (we intercepted his letter to Osama), convicted Palestinian terrorist Abu Abbas was captured in Iraq on 4/15/03 during our invasion, the terrorist Ahmed Walid Raguib al-Baz - a 1st Lieutenant in the Palestine Liberation Front - was killed in Iraq during our invasion on 3/20/03, Abu Nidal terrorist Khala Khadr Al-Salahat was captured in Iraq on 4/18/03, and the indicted fugitive from 1993 WTC bombing - with a $25 Million reward on his head - Abdul Rahman Yasin - was likewise seen in Iraq.
10 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
If France and Germany's leaders get such "good press," then please explain why Chirac and Schroeder have national popularity ratings there below 30%.
10 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
What credibility has Sistani lost in Iraq?
Be specific.
10 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
Nonsense. Pakistan joined us *after* 9/11. Libya disarmed *after* we captured Saddam Hussein.
10 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
I don't know who "the rest of us" is to you, but here, at this forum, "the rest of us" are conservatives who support this president 97 percent!
BTW, you can't "change the tone" when the other sides hopes for the death of young Americans so that they can take back the White House.
BTW, there is no such person as "George Bush Sr."
I defy you to post ONE SENTENCE that came out of George Bush's or Dick Cheney's mouths that said anything close to that.
Here, kitty! kitty! kitty! kitty! kitty! kitty! .....
Viking Kittens - Led Zeppelin - Immigrant Song
Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my Viking Kitty/ZOT ping list!. . .don't be shy.
You just pretty much announced to everyone that you are a troll. Have you been lurking or have you been zotted before? You must realize that this is a conservative group and If you where more honest then identify yourself as a Libertarian.
I hope you understand, for the rest of us, that's not good enough.
The rest of us? as in who? Don't say you speak for the American people because you don't. You pretty much have to speak for yourself.
“Kerry didn't try to "gut our intelligence" when he suggested we use it's surplus...”
Kerry didn’t have to, our intelligence was gutted during the Clinton administration – people used for intelligence weren’t nice; stopped all profiling and ham strung the CIA and FBI with a WALL of no inner agency weights and balances except for the helpful FBI files for Mrs. Clinton.
” There was no need to try to deceive the public...”
President Bush, Prime Minster Blair, the United Nations, our Congress had only what was left of our intelligence and what ever the others had to go on – this was not a deception as it was agreed upon by all parties and it was not a unilateral decision on the part of President Bush.”
I would go on but someone else will have to educate you if you won’t do your own research. The Clinton administration also warned the American public about those ties and defended its response to al Qaeda terror by citing an Iraqi connection. “Lieutenant-Colonel Ahmed Hikmat Shakir was an officer in the Fedayeen, it would establish a direct link between Iraq and the al Qaeda operatives who planned 9/11. Shakir was present at the January 2000 al Qaeda "summit" in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, at which the 9/11 attacks were planned. The U.S. has never been sure whether he was there on behalf of the Iraqi regime or whether he was an Iraqi Islamicist who hooked up with al Qaeda on his own.”
” Even the former Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet said, in testimony before the 9-11 Commission, ‘it would take us another five years to have the kind of clandestine service our country needs.’ Thanks to historic levels of funding authorized in this bill we will continue to make great strides in achieving our goal of strengthening our intelligence agencies.
Most recently, much debate has occurred about whether there is a link between Saddam Hussein and al Qeada. Our understanding of terrorist efforts and intentions come from our intelligence and that intelligence has shown that under both the Bush and Clinton Administrations there was significant evidence of a relationship between the tyrannical Iraqi leader and the terrorist group. Under President Clinton, there were at least two official pronouncements of an alarming alliance between Baghdad and al Qaeda. One came from William S. Cohen, Clinton’s defense secretary. He cited an al Qaeda-Baghdad link to justify the bombing of a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan. The other pronouncement is contained in a Justice Department indictment on Nov. 4, 1998, charging bin Laden with murder in the bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa. The indictment disclosed a close relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam's regime, which included specialists on chemical weapons and all types of bombs, including truck bombs, a favorite weapon of terrorists (Washington Times).
There is no doubt that there was a connection between Saddam and al Qeada to some extent. Unfortunately, our intelligence community was hamstringed to amass all of the information. .........
There is simply a ton of evidence for those who want to see and read the truth.
Preparing the Zot!
The zot is launched
DIRECT HIT!!
It's ZOT!ing time in the city... and the people rejoice. 
