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Posted on 07/12/2004 12:45:33 PM PDT by RavenMoon
WASHINGTON - Lynne Cheney, the vice president's wife, said yesterday that states should have the final say over the legal status of personal relationships. The Cheneys have a lesbian daughter.
That stand puts her at odds with the vice president on the need for the constitutional amendment now debated in the Senate that effectively would ban gay marriage.
"I think that the constitutional amendment discussion will give us an opportunity to look for ways to discuss ways in which we can keep the authority of the states intact," Cheney told CNN's Late Edition.
The Senate began debate Friday on an amendment that defines marriage as a union of a man and woman as husband and wife.
(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...
The government should not be issuing marriage certificates to anyone, heterosexual or homosexual or otherwise. No government has business mingling itself in the matters of two (or more) people who have chosen to live a life together some fashion. At most, the states should offer civil unions to any people wishing to share the rights and benefits of commercial transaction that we currently accord to marriage. People have been living together in cohesive groups long before laws and nations ever existed.
Marriage, has been the province of religion and should remain such. If one religion won't marry you, find one that will, if you are willing to follow it. Marriage is a spiritual union determined by the tenets of each religion.
I know this is not the system we currently live under, nor are we ever likely to be, but I think it's the correct one.
A proper conservative would resist any attempts to amend The Constitution unless they are absolutely necessary. This issue just doesn't merit that level of attention.
Jeremiah wrote: The "filth" you mention was written by felllow homosexuals. I didn't write it.
These people do not speak for me anymore than Fred Phelps speaks for you, a point you obviously didn't see I was trying to make. Let's hope it hits a home run this time around. ;-D
[This is child's play!] Fred Phelps is disowned by the traditional values and pro-marriage people to a man. None agree with him, none will be seen with him, all criticize him. On the other hand, all the homosexual spokespeople I quoted are mainstream, accredited in the "gay" movement people - Sullivan writes for the NYT for heaven's sake! Furthermore, NO homosexuals speak out against these spokespeople save and except for Tammy Bruce and to some degree, Camille Paglia. So the situation is entirely different. Additionally (you make this so easy) you claim that the homosexual spokespeople I quote above don't speak for you, yet you do not distance yourself from the homo-agenda one millimeter. So you are duplicitous.
Jeremiah wrote: "The fact is that roughly one third of child molestations are same sex. That is not my invention. It is factual. It is also factual that historically, and currently, homosexuals IN GENERAL have a proclivity towards pederasty - meaning men attracted to younger boys, either pre or post adolescent, for sexual pleasure. So why are my statements of fact "filth" or vitriol?"
None of the "homosexuals" I know are into children, at least that I know of, and the "facts" you're touting are the same drivel that's repeated from one anti-gay site to another.
Well, because the homosexuals you know aren't pedophiles or pederasts (you think you know every single thing about them? Or that they'd tell you if they were)? Secondly, the numbers speak for themselves. Here's just once bit of evidence:
" Almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men; and · Less than three percent of American men identify themselves as homosexual; yet · Nearly a third of all cases of child sexual abuse are homosexual in nature (that is, they involve men molesting boys). This is a rate of homosexual child abuse about ten times higher than one would expect based on the first two facts. These figures are essentially undisputed. However, pro-homosexual activists seek to explain them away by claiming that men who molest boys are not usually homosexual in their adult sexual orientation. Yet a study of convicted child molesters, published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior, found that "86 percent of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual" (W. D. Erickson, M.D., et al., in Archives of Sexual Behavior 17:1, 1988)."
That doesn't make it fact. In fact, I've always read that the vast majority of "pederasty" is committed by adult men upon young girls.
If something is a fact, it's a fact. You denying the truth doesn't change it. Truth is not subjective or dependent on your personal approval.
Jeremiah wrote: "Where is the word "Nazi" in any of my comments?"
Feigned coyness is almost as weak a tactic as comparing people to Nazis. Come off it. LOL. If you really want me to take only this thread into consideration, then no, that word is not in your comments, but how many times have I read your posts about the Pink Swastika material? Apparently, much of that has been refuted in an annotated copy online.
I have posted many links to "The Pink Swastika" because it is a very valuable source of information about the connection between homosexuality and Nazism that is currently being revised out of existence due to homosexual revisionists. I wonder how it can be refuted, unless the refuters somehow manage to go back in time and change the past. Additionally, a book came out last year called "The Hidden Hitler" by Lothar Machtan, a German historian who teaches Modern and Current History at Bremen University. He comes to the same conclusion as Scott Lively, with even more voluminous historical evidence proving that not only was the Nazi movement and philosophy founded on homo-eroticism, but that Hitler himself was a homosexual as well.
I plan to read it when I have a chance, but again, the Nazis don't speak for ME anymore than these OTHER people you cite as my representatives.
If they don't speak for you (the spokespeople I quoted above, not Nazis), then you need to say (although you can't now, too bad) exactly in what way you disagree with them and the homosexual agenda they proudly support.
If you want to know what *I* think about my personal homosexual experience, here I am.
Actually, I don't need or want to know about it.
Iif,...you want to put me in some box that makes me easy for you to categorize, then expect the same in kind.
I'm just taking what you yourself state and commenting on it. If someone supports the normalization and promotion of homosexuality, and I call them on it, is that "categorizing"?
Jeremiah wrote: "And why are you bringing Phelps into this? He's a sick nutcase and I have nothing to do with him or his ilk, nor would I ever. I would cross the street to avoid even seeing him. "
Thank you for making my point for me. I feel exactly the same way about Gay Nazis and NAMBLA people that you seem to think speak for me.
You can't sneak out of this one. The homosexual spokespeople I quoted above are neither Nazis nor members of NAMBLA, unless secretly. They're merely mainstream promoters of the "gay" agenda, and you can't weasel out of being lumped together with them unless and until (which you can't now anyway, unless you get a new screen name and computer) you disavow their goals and plans.
Jeremiah wrote: "You are indulging in dishonest debating tactics. I present facts, and statements by homosexual spokespeople. You start making phony connections between me (since I disagree with the homosexual agenda) and Phelps, who is a vicious madman."
And how is this not contradictory? Who gave you the supreme right to decide who is a spokesperson and who is a vicious madman?
Well, for one thing, Phelps doesn't write for the NYT, nor do people fawningly interview him for the LA Times. Nor is he considered a mainstream representative for pro-family advocates (in fact, he is universally loathed), in the way that the above quoted homosexual advocates are embraced by the "gay" rights movement in general.
Jeremiah wrote: "You mention a couple of friends who are devoted to each as though this anecdotal evidence in any way contradicts the factual evidence that a great number of homosexuals - especially men - are wildly promiscuous, and outdo heterosexuals in this regard."
...the gay couples I know are rather committed to one another and I've always been personally turned off by promiscuity, so, again, you're lumping me into a box with people whose views I don't share, and yet you complain when I do the same [Phelps] to you. Interesting.
Facts and figures tell the story here. It's an undeniable fact that homosexuals - especially men - are many times more promiscuous than normal ("straight") men. So even if some aren't, that doesn't change a thing. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about homosexuals as a group being wildly promiscuous. It's a fact. And if you decry such promiscuity, good for you. Note - bringing Phelps into this again. Odd.
Jeremiah wrote: "Are you next going to deny that there is a homosexual agenda to promote it in schools?"
And *that's* not a slanted, loaded question? Promote exactly *what* in schools? I don't think anything should be "promoted" as being superior, thank you, but I don't think that the child of a homosexual couple should feel ashamed to go to school and say "I have two mommies" or whatever the hell the term is these days. I don't think a homosexual 15 year old should have to hide who he or she is out of shame. You color your question with slanted language to make it sound different than it is.
Hmm. So you do support the homosexual agenda in schools. Like GLSEN's "Gay Straight Alliance" Clubs - with homosexual counsellors ready willing and able to convince the "questioning" kids that they are, indeed, gay for life. So you do think that little kids - as young as 5 and 6 - should be told that two men or two women can be "married". Ok, so we're clear on this one.
...those feelings are ingrained and they should be respected.
By "respected" do you mean as in everyone has free will and we should respect that people have a right to be wrong? Or as in we must change laws to allow two homosexuals to get "married" and force feed the promotion of homosexuality in schools against the parents' wishes? So in your world all "feelings" should be respected? This nonsense doesn't even need me to defeat it. It defeats itself.
Is it genetic? I have no idea. I'm not a geneticist and neither is anyone else on this list I imagine. I theorize that it's developmental, and I despise homosexual activists when they try to fight research into the subject because they're afraid of finding out a truth they won't like. However, my guess is that it happens in the womb.
Well, your guess is worthy exactly what you put into it. Research says otherwise.
If people choose to presume what my moral and ethical compasses are, that's their choice but I refuse to acknowledge it anymore than I absolutely have to.
This last statement has English words, but means nothing.
I rest my case.
Well, speaking from the point of view of someone who cares about the continuation of civilized human society, I beg to differ. And I have thousands and thousands of years of history on my side, all the world's religions, medical facts, common sense, and the majority of Americans.
Check out the reply to Raven Moon I just posted. And note that Britannic just signed up this minute, and the post he/she just made is his/her first and only one! Coincidence? What do you think?
"The constitution already has extra language in it protecting marriage (spouses can't be forced to testify against each other.) It is clear that marriage falls into a special category."
My copy of the US Constitution seems to be missing the section which has to do with spousal testimony. Could you refresh my memory as to where exactly that is written?
Thanks.
dvwjr
Not the positions you people get in. EW!
Can't you just keep your perversions to yourself?
You said all you wanted was for people to "tolerate" your existence. Liars. You want to dictate through fascist litigation what we must and must not accept, according to what you few want. Not all Americans deviate from the norm as you do. Very few are sexual deviates.
Have you ever stopped to think most people think you're sick and want you away from their children? Chasing another mans anus is totally sick? Eating another's feces is grotesque?
Do people not have the right to shun your behavior? If it makes them ill, why should they accept your fetish? Why should they be forced to accept you as normal human beings, after you engage in such vile behavior?
No. You're not normal. You are not just like us. You have a problem, a sexual dysfunction. Why are you not seeking help instead of trying to destroy all this country holds sacred?
What's the difference between Muslim terrorists and homosexuals? One wants to destroy the American people from within, the other from without.
Try seeing yourself as you truely are. A flaming homosexual, and there's nothing gay about your deathstyle choice.
If first cousins couldn't marry in your state, that didn't invalidate a marriage of first cousins in another state. The problem with the whole states rights thing is that we're not in any way shape of fashion the same nation we were in the late 18th century. We're a very fluid population. In the founders time, most people lived and died within 50 miles of their birth. Today it's not unusual to live in 3 or 4 states in your lifetime. The problem with your argument there, is that we've never let that bother us before.
Raven Moon was a dysfunctional homosexual from another thread. The thread got pulled for awhile. I suppose to get rid of the flaming "it".
The newbie must be one of it's bed fellows.
You're not exactly right there Sandy. Under current law, you can drive through Montana all night and day with a license from any of the other 49 states, and Montana must recognize that license as valid.
We must remain vigilant.
;-)
There's a lot of people with kids in this country, knowing they're easy prey for the homosexual mental mutants. If that amendment reaches the polls, mothers and fathers, husbands and wives, will run over each other getting to the polls to vote for it.
Here's my email to dear Mister Robinson. I first asked him to reinstate my account but sent another email right afterwards and wanted to share it with the good folks here at not so FREE Republic. I'm sure it will get deleted but I can be assured that if just one of you sees it, more of you will talk about it. You chose to label me. I found a label that works for dear Jim. I think he could have quite the career. Kisses! :)
Dearest Jim,
Please don't bother to reinstate my account as I do not have time for it now. In fact, I believe I have another use for you, upon researching your unfortunate malady online. I've been looking to hire amputees and cripples for Festival of the Dead (www.festivalofthedead.com). I'm especially looking for veterans since they are often missing the most parts in the most places. I know how much you believe in the traditions and absolute morality of yesteryear. In days of old, folks such as yourself didn't have the benefit of wheelchairs; they were thrown the corn cob and made to wobble on over to it or they starved. I promise, if you work for Shawn and I, you will never starve, but I will have to ask you to leave your wheels at home. See, we're going to be teaching children to contact spirits this year, maybe even demonic forces and other old friends, all in the name of timeless tradition of course. And you should be happy about that because it was the many whiners from your web site who inspired me to "up the ante" as it were. I mean, your simple folk couldn't handle a basic self-help event without complaining. In the words of most mothers, we gave you something to really cry about. But the problem is, we need workers, especially for our psychic fair. The millions of visitors to Salem want to be scared. There's nothing quite as special as a legless cripple with stumps to wobble after our tourists. The fact that you're a veteran means we can support our troops at the same time, honoring the hard work you've done. After all, it's not like days gone by, where armies would have left the wounded like you to be eaten by carrion crows.
We hope you'll consider coming to work for us, Jim. It would mean a lot to us.
Yours in Christ,
Christian
You are one disturbed, sick little "it", aren't you? You choose to be sexually dysfunctional. You chose to die and early death. You choose to be an outcast of the human race.
You chose to infect others with your diseases.
You've labeled yourself. It was YOUR choice. That's what you are. If you don't like the reflection we've shown you, seek help.
Taking out your self hate, self pity. and self absorption on a good man like Jim, who was willing to give up his life for all of us, shows how truly disturbed you really are.
freebirdmedley aka RavenMoon zotted again.
You just sent yourself to hell for a long, long time.
Kudos. What a bunch of loooosers!
I suppose they have no idea what they are. They can't see what they in their mirrors. Evil has no reflection.
He/she/it freepmailed me the same thing just in case I missed it.
The amount of abuse you put up with is very sad. "As you sow, so shall you reap" - what you will reap is going to be very different from what sick subhumans like that will reap. But reap they will.
Thank you, JR, from the bottom of my heart, for the service you render. There is nothing as valuable as the truth.
It's a religious ceremony. If the Cult of Adam and Steve want to allow a gay marriage, that's fine by me, BUT my church won't recognize it, and neither will I.
Gimpy Cripple wrote: "freebirdmedley aka RavenMoon zotted again"
Really? And after all you do for these poor sods. I've stepped on the venerated veteran heart of a forgotten soldier. Color me sad. I still think you should come work for us. You'd make a better sideshow attraction than a web master. I promise I won't charge much for them to see you.
Kisses!
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