Karina: Am I Conservative, Rush?

RUSH: Karina in Davie, Florida, this is where the Miami Dolphins train. Hello, Karina and welcome to the program.

CALLER: Hi, Rush, thanks for taking my call. I'm a new listener. I just turned 24, I've been listening for maybe about six months, and before I started listening to you I thought I was a liberal. No questions about it. But after listening to you, I'm not real sure anymore. I still consider myself a liberal, but--

CALLER: -- I'm going to vote for Bush. So I need your help to finding, I guess, my political party.

RUSH: Okay, this is going to require some conversation. I'll be glad to tell you about this when we come back. I want to change my battery here. I hope I have a spare battery. Well, I always do, I always care a spare battery in the briefcase, so I'll switch batteries here in the break Karina. You just turned 24, you're a new listener, I want to find out first, it's important, how you found this show. We've been here 16 years.

RUSH: Let's go back now to Karina in Davie, Florida. All right, it's great to be able to talk to you, Karina, be able to hear you.

RUSH: So you're 24, you've been listening for about six months. How did you find the program?

CALLER: My boyfriend Tom. He started listening to your show, and I just figured let me start listening. He would come home from work and he'd start talking about your show, and I'd have no idea what he's talking about, so I started listening, and, you know, we go home, we could talk about the show and what's going on. And everything that, you know, we talk about what you said and stuff like that.

CALLER: When I was growing up I was taught that Republicans are for the rich and Democrats are for the poor, and I figured, well, I'm not rich, so I must be a Democrat. But then I have liberal ideas, like I believe in pro-choice.

RUSH: Now, there's got to be a reason for that. Obviously on some social issues, some cultural issues, you lean more to the left, but yet Kerry doesn't appeal to you. Why?

CALLER: I have a three-year-old daughter, and I just don't feel safe with him in the office. I think Bush, he's going to take charge, I feel safer with him in the White House. I think Kerry, something bad would happen, and I'm just thinking about my daughter.

RUSH: All right, now, it says here on the subject line that you called because -- I hope this is right -- you need help defining yourself politically?

CALLER: Well, because I hear your show, and you said that people who are liberals call themselves moderates. I'm pretty much confused. I don't know what I am. I have liberal ideas, but I also have conservative ideas. So, you know, which one am I?

RUSH: Well, we could go through some questions, and we could, you know, give you a little test here --

RUSH: -- and come out with an overall score. That's one way of doing it. There's an overarching definition here, and I went through it a little bit yesterday. Let me try it again. And this, to some people, it would be simplistic, but it would be a good starting point.

RUSH: Take the universe of the American people. We all want, for the most part, I mean there are some exceptions to this, we all want the same things in life. We want freedom; we want the chance for prosperity; we want to be the best we can be; we want as few people suffering as possible, economically; we want to have healthy children; we want to have crime-free streets; all these things, they're pretty common. Doesn't matter what race you are, doesn't matter what gender you are, doesn't matter what sexual orientation you are, these are the things we want. The arguments is how to achieve them.

Now, the American left, or liberals believe, that the individual, on balance, is not capable of providing all of those things him or herself, because American left believes that most people are not equipped to make the best judgments for themselves, they're not equipped to access the economy and do the best for themselves economically.

The American Conservative, the right, believes that freedom is the essence of life in America and that freedom allows everybody to seek whatever it is they want and need on their own terms and that they are far better equipped to get what they want and need than a central government distributing things to people based on what that government thinks people should want and should need.

RUSH: So where do you come down on that? I mean, do you want the government to be responsible for your income? Do you want the government to be responsible for your child's future? Do you want to have to depend, in essence, on somebody else to satisfy your wants and needs or would you rather satisfy those wants and needs yourself, with your family and so forth? How would you answer that?

CALLER: Well, see, that's a good question because I get help because I go to school, so I'm getting help from the government, but I'm not going to be depending on it. I only have maybe a year or more before I get my degree and then I'm not going to be getting the financial help anymore.

CALLER: So I get my tuition paid and I get, you know, my daughter's day care paid.

CALLER: So Tom tells me, he's my boyfriend, he tells me that liberals believe that the government has to help you, and then they become dependent on it.

RUSH: Well, he's right in this sense. See now, this is what I believe based on having seen it. These are big arguments that ensue from this, but I think whereas in the case of your Pell grant, your education and this sort of thing, I don't find anything wrong with assistance to people who are trying to improve themselves, who intend to pay back some of this assistance, and you're doing it for reasons that -- I mean you're doing it, you're going to school -- you're accessing an opportunity, you're not depending on somebody else to get through life, so you're actually depending on yourself here.

The problem with the American left is that when it comes to the so-called social safety net or social programs, their ultimate belief is -- and if you listen to John Edwards and Kerry talk about this -- you'll hear them talk about the two Americas. They look at America and they see soup lines, homeless people, they see nothing but suffering out there, and they want you and everybody else to believe that exists because too many people have gotten wealthy, and have stolen money from the whole aggregate amount of money that should otherwise go to people like you and others who aren't doing well. And so what they want to do is make you think that you're getting the shaft and you're being treated unfairly, and the way they're going to fix it is to take money from the people who have more than you do, because it's not right that they have more than you do, and redistribute it to all the rest, or the people who don't have as much. And this is supposed to make people like you feel good that the people doing better than you are going to be punished because they have more than you do, and this is called class envy, and what they try to do is make you feel happy, not when good things happen to you but when bad things happen to other people.

CALLER: Okay. Well, then the answer to your question would be no, I think the government should give you a helping hand but then you should be responsible for your own --

RUSH: All right, now, when you say that the government should give you a helping hand, I want you to keep in mind who the government is. Who do you think -- when you say the government should give you a helping hand -- who is that? Where does the government get its money?

RUSH: Right. So essentially, when you boil this all down, take the emotion out of this for just a second, essentially when people say, "Yeah, I think government should provide my health care or I think the government should take care of my education, the government should--" what you're really saying is that your fellow citizens should.

RUSH: Well, of course they're not going to say that, the liberals are not going to say that, but their policies do just that. And they do it in the basis of fairness and equality, and who could oppose fairness and equality, everybody is for fairness, right?

RUSH: What is fair? Nothing about life is fair. Everything that happens in life, some days are good, some days are bad. Everybody deals with things as they happen. And the left has been very successful in creating this notion that the government is an independent source of money and benevolently distributes it to people in need, but before they get that money they have to take it from somebody else.

Now, we Americans are compassionate people. This is the mitigating effect. We Americans are compassionate people. We were the prosperous nation of the earth, we are the most well-off people, there's nowhere on earth where life is as good as it is in this country despite what you hear various liberals like Kerry and Edwards say. So we don't want people to suffer. I don't want my fellow citizens to suffer and I don't want people to be in pain and I don't want people to not be treated for, you know, serious medical problems and this sort of thing, so the American people have agreed in their compassion that when there is a genuine need among people who are having trouble, they may be trying but they're not really at that point in their lives able to help themselves, we're more than willing to chip in and help.

The objective, though, is to provide the kind of help that teaches people to eventually learn to provide for themselves because that's where pride in one's self comes from, that's where the sense of achievement comes from, the sense of accomplishment. When you do it yourself. When you buy your own car instead of having somebody give it to you, you'll appreciate it much more, you'll care for it better, you'll feel a sense of achievement and accomplishment. This is what the American left doesn't want you to feel, in my opinion. They want you to stay -- not you personally -- they want people to stay dependent because that's where the American left derives its power, people needing them.

We conservatives define compassion this way: not by counting the number of people who get help and who get aid, but by counting the number of people who don't need it anymore. They've been helped in such a way that they are able now to go out and be self-sufficient and productive and contributing to society. You sound like the latter. You sound like somebody accessing a government program to get an education, and you intend to do this so that you can improve yourself and all that. Now, there may be people in this audience who still think that there ought not be Pell grants, people in all walks of life who think that [doing impression] "I didn't get any help going to school, I worked four jobs, why can't they?" There are those people that exist. The fact is the program's there and until it's taken away, you access it --

RUSH: In a sense, yeah. Yeah. Where some of this gets confused, let's go back to, you said that you're pro-choice and you are for gay marriage.

RUSH: Those are cultural issues. And it's a crying shame that abortion has become a political issue that has been identified as left or right. It has become a political issue because the Supreme Court made up a right in the Constitution that's in there in order to allow it to happen. That turned it political because the Constitution is a political document. And it's just unfortunate. What we hope is, is that there will be a never ending respect for the sanctity of life and that, you know, all life is precious, and you can argue about where it begins and all this sort of thing. People practically know that no matter what you do, no law is going to stop abortion. Legal or not, it's going to happen.

So the objective is not to point fingers in people's face and say, "You can't do that, you shouldn't do that." The objective, long term, is to change people's hearts and minds and eventually get to the point -- don't even get to where you need an abortion. Be serious about this, be serious about having a child and if you're not ready for one, don't. And certainly don't have a child because there's a government program out there to pay for it like AFDC. The American welfare system got so bloated at one point that it became profitable for unmarried women to have kids because the government, state and federal, would pay them to take care of them. This led to all kinds of dissolution of families in certain poor communities around the country because it obviated the need for a father. If the government is going to pay you to have a baby or a series of babies, what do you need to get married, what do you need a man around for? You don't. And this was also part of a devious plan, I think, to create power in government, create need in single women and so forth. These things are very hideous because to me they end up doing great damage to people. It's not good for the babies born that way, it's certainly not good for the mothers. But it's still not worth aborting them.

CALLER: So if I agree with pro-choice, the woman's right to choose, am I then agreeing with abortion? Because I already had a daughter, I could never see myself having an abortion, but I liked having the choice, it was my choice with what I wanted to do.

CALLER: If I say I'm for pro-choice, that a woman should decide, then am I saying yes, I'm okay with abortion?

RUSH: Yeah, because in the American political context today pro-choice just means pro-abortion. And I can illustrate it for you this way. This has happened. I have reported it, I have seen it. You can have an abortion clinic side by side with a place that tries to convince women not to have the abortion, but to bring them in, counsel them, have the baby and put it up for adoption. The abortion clinic people argue with that. The abortion clinic people try to keep women from going to these family planning places that will lead to adoption, because abortion has become a political issue, abortion is become a sacrament to feminism. Abortion is how they establish their independence and identity and that's why the Democratic Party supports it. So in the political context today yes, to answer your question, pro-choice simply means pro-abortion because there is a political objective furthered with each abortion. Now, it's interesting that you said you wouldn't do it, you liked having the choice, you wouldn't do it, but you think other people should. Now, the way I would answer that is, we all have a responsibility. You are a mother, right?

RUSH: So you want to set the best example for your child possible. You have to provide leadership because your child is young and malleable and doesn't know anything other than what you're going to teach them, as, is it a daughter or son?

RUSH: Little girl, as your little girl grows up. I assure you I'm imposing nothing on you, I just want you to think about it. If you have a personal view that abortion is not for you and you don't like it, then it's important, if it's that important for you to have that view, then it's okay to say that. Most people don't want the controversy of getting into arguments with people who disagree with them, so they say, "Well, I would never do it, but I will never stand in her way or anybody else's way of doing it." And, understandably so, you shouldn't. But at the same time, it's important that you not let your actual belief be watered down simply because of your desire to be tolerant and understanding with somebody else's. If your belief is worth holding, it's worth living. So, on balance here, I'm going to call you a rock-ribbed conservative.

RUSH: Rock, because you're leaning that way, and I can tell by the way you're reacting to this that you're open to it, and you get it.

RUSH: You don't feel like arguing with me about it, you haven't yet told me I'm full of it or wrong.

RUSH: I'm glad he did, too. It's been a sheer delight talking to you. You call back any time you have a question.

RUSH: In fact, Karina, hang on because I want to get your phone number. We're going to check in with you periodically. We're not going to wait for you to call, you may not get through. So we'll check with you periodically to see if you have any other questions, and we'll use you, because you're a perfect demographic, you're 24, you're trying to figure all this stuff out and understand it, we'll stay in touch with you, okay?

RUSH: Hey, Karina, I know you're still out there, what we're going to do, I forgot to do this because I was up against a time constraint here. Brett, call her back, we're going to make her a subscriber to the website, her boyfriend, and to the newsletter. I mean, what better way to reinforce her instincts than to do that. And Koko -- talking here to the webmaster -- I want to put this call on the free side of the website with a transcript, make an MP3 out of it for people to be able to download and spread the word.

you seem to think you ought to just be given a check by the government, paid for by taxes confiscated by the government.

I've repaid all that and much more since I graduated. And I don't mind being on the giving end now. It's a great investment and one of the very few things the government does right.

"I have a similarly "confused" coworker. On almost every single issue we discuss, her instincts are conservative. Yet, when it comes down to who she votes for, she always votes Democrat. Why? Because Republicans are "intolerant, hateful, rich..." and all the other standard tripe spouted by the left."

Frustrating!! I tell such people that if they think the Democrats today are the Democrats of old --- then take another look. There is a difference between liberalism and socialism.

I'm really saddened that Rush would condone this woman's leeching off the backs of the rest of us.

he's meeting her right where she is... this is her situation... he can call her a leech and tell her she's wrong for the Pell Grant, and lose her forever... or he can meet her where she is... get her to think about things, and let her come to the "proper" conclusion herself...

it truly is a "heart" change... i was much like this gal when i was in my early to mid twenties... had a heart change, and saw the light... (i happened to read one of Rush's books that someone left at my home--until then, i thought i had absolutely nothing in common with Rush Limbaugh.)

(Here's my beef. Before Johnson folks relied on themselves and families to get out of their personal situations. Now they rely on the government, and the same logic being used to justify pell grants can be used to justify a whole host of liberal social programs. the end result is the welfare state, and we've seen how disasterous 40 years of welfare programs have been. What we need is a return to self reliance.)

Surprise, I agree with you, but sometimes people are thrown in positions that they never expected. But just remember she is now teaching her children how not to be on welfare, or getting paid education. So far two of her kids are going into college on their own. Go grades got them help and working a job will take care of the rest. The other 2 our still in high school with good grades. Its not 40 years of social services its over 60 years it started with Roosevelt.

I have been writing my Congressmen and Senators on this subject, but I am from the state of WA, and you can guess how far I am getting. We need to change policies, but when you are talking to someone like Patty Murray or McDermott, your talking to "THE" socialist top people.

I'm really saddened that Rush would condone this woman's leeching off the backs of the rest of us.

I'm really glad that she called Rush and not you.

You know most people are not going to become more conservative by telling them they are leeches. Especially someone like this woman who seems to want a better future.

You're probably mad that she had the gall to have a baby too, but she made the right choice here too and now she is figuring out how to better herself to pay for it.

If we can only preach to the choir, the choir will get too old and too small in due time to make any more music.

Did you consider joining the military?

Yeah, but that would have cost the taxpayers even more than a Pell Grant.

We've got more than enough people who joined for the college money, thanks.

While you are right in a sense that the logic of investing in people's educations, if taken to an extreme, could be uesd to justify all sorts of things, I think it is one of the smartest things we do.

A more educated citizenry benefits society far beyond how much money you can make off of taxing them. This is especially true in light of how poorly our public schools perform at preparing kids to be adults (which is also taxpayer supported).

Whereas most welfare, subsidies, and handouts are for the benefit of individuals, I think a strong case could be made that supporting the education of others is an investment that benefits all of us.

As for where to draw the line, common sense will have to come into play. Worrying about what a certain strand of logic can do if taken to an absolute extreme can destroy every good idea there is.

Do you consider all Pell grant recipients and student loan beneficiaries to be the spawn of satan?

Sorry, I'm not going down to that level but I do consider those who take Pell Grant money to be taking government handouts paid for by taxes confiscated from hard working americans, money that would be better spent by those americans who actually earn it.

I guess you don't have a problem with the government forcibly taking money from one American so that it can be given to another? You don't see that as immoral?

So you would agree with the Democrats that we ought to spend more to hire and train better teachers? You would agree with the democrats that we ought to spend more on better schools? After all, you are repeating the same logic they use to justify their education programs.

Bottom line, support for pell grants equals support for confiscating money from tax payers so that it can be given out to others rather than allowing it to be spent by those who earned it.

If you think that governmentt is better capable of spending your money then you are, then you aren't a Conservative.

Those that are defending the Pell Grant program are making the case that it is moral, and to our benefit to confiscate money from hard working americans so that it can be given to those who are unwilling to pay their own way through college. I don't see how you can justify your support for this on any ground.

"You don't see that as immoral?"

So, you do consider all pell grant recipients to be the spawn of satan!

In reality, I agree that confiscating any money to be used federally for any purpose beyond national defense is immoral. However, consider that I paid twice what I received my first year after school and it can be seen as beneficial to have this system.

In addition, if all spending were cut and only constitutional spending were allowed, well the necessity of such programs would be negated. If I could have taken more of my earned income home over my lifetime I may have been able to attend college without loans or the pell grant. In addition, the education system has been so filled with gov't. largesse that the costs are unaffordable without some forms of aide.

So yes, on its face accepting a pell grant would seem evil, yet sometimes accepting that evil exists at much greater levels forces one to accept the grants. If we could get the government back to constitutional roles, I would agree that pell grant recipients are the spawn of satan, however absent the full scale back of government I can't demonize the pell grant recipient.

Am I losing my mind here or did Rush come out in favor of using confiscated tax dollars to help people who are too lazy to help themselves? .... I'm really saddened that Rush would condone this woman's leeching off the backs of the rest of us.

Masterquilla, do you own your house (you and the bank?)

If you are going to rag on this gal for taking a Pell Grant, then I hope you are refusing to take any deductions for the interest paid on your house mortgage. It would be hypocritical of you to take my hard earned tax dollars to subsidize your home.

If you went to a state school, I hoped you paid the full amount your education cost and not just the tuition the school charges. Otherwise your education will have been subsidized by tax dollars paid by the citizens in your state.

Oh, and be sure to pay a little something every time you check a book out of the library. I'd hate to think you would be so hypocritical as to use their services without paying the free market value.

Point is, tax dollars help subsidize many things in society, so get off this gals back!

But I really doubt I'd have to worry about you getting into business school since you can't do basic cost-benefit analysis.

FWIW, I obtained an MBA from a well-respected University after over 3 years of night & weekend classes, all the while holding down a full time job, doing some side work, and raising an infant with my wife. I took no aid, and didn't even receive tuition assistance from my employer.

When you did your cost-benefit analysis, did you correlate the rise in tuition rates with increasing federal involvement in subsidizing the cost of college and graduate education?

What you have missed is that perhaps the main reason why college is so expensive is because it is so heavily subsidized by the federal government. Take away federal subsidies and you'll see tuition rates fall to where more and more folks can afford to pay their own way.

And for those who still want to take loans, let them apply for them at their local bank. If there is a business case for loaning a person money to go to college, the banks stand to profit on their loan, without the need for government involvement.

Let others apply for grants and scholarships funded by those citizens who wish to donate their own money to such causes rather than being forced to give up their income to the federal government under the threat of arrest.

Your argument doesn't make any sense. You are confusing grants with tax deductions. In case you weren't aware, money spent on education for one's profession is currently tax deductable.

I didn't get a government grant to buy my house. But perhaps I would have been able to afford a house a bit sooner if my taxes were lower from not being forced to pay to subsidize others.

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