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Thread 11 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1159172/posts?page=1 |
Posted on 06/10/2004 2:28:29 PM PDT by JustPiper
Picture credit: TheCabal
"I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat"
U.S. Charges Australian Linked to al-Qaida
WASHINGTON - An Australian held at the Navy's prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, will face a military tribunal for allegedly training and fighting alongside members of al-Qaida in Afghanistan (news - web sites), the Pentagon (news - web sites) announced Thursday.
We are the "Stotters" who make ourselves aware of the enemy who wishes to do us harm
(Excerpt) Read more at story.news.yahoo.com ...
I consider it minimal wisdom to include as much info, as many puzzle pieces as possible--especially at these stages relatively early complexity and flexibility of forces and issues in terms of eventual actions and results.
I don't consider it a bootstrap connection at all to realize that should
ANY
natural disaster or man-made disaster occur which impacts significant numbers of people, cities etc. in the USA and/or western world,
IT IS OBVIOUS that Jihadi's would be gleefully eager to take advantage of such and to maximize the damage
AND
to maximize the Jihadi's benefit from the natural disaster.
Any TM or other group purporting or even attempting to be maximally informed and prepared for such eventualities would be foolish to ignorant to blind to ignore
ANY
significant
FACTOR(S)
which Jihadi's might remotely be construed to consider or use in their efforts to do us damage.
What about this is so hard to wrap one's understanding around???
Regardless of how early I lurked on the TM thread vs posting or how early I posted or whatever, I'm NOT a Johnny come lately.
I am given to extensive thinking outside the box. THAT 'OUT OF THE BOX' mentality has HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED TO BE OF AT LEAST POTENTIAL GREAT BENEFIT IN ALL MANNER OF CRISES. Sheesh.
I'm sorry your construction on reality re TM seems to so stridently insist on narrow definitions, narrow sensibilities . . . . and quite logically therefrom, narrow understandings, interpretations and narrow results.
Personally, when it comes to safety--of my home, community and nation, I want the
BROADEST
POSSIBLE
considerations, postulations, contingency scenarios.
Sigh.
Agreed.
There is a "snowball effect" where a tolerance for diversity of opinion has degenerated into "anything goes". This is not just one recent topic, but a handful that go back weeks. Also, it is dangerous when mainstream media sources are denigrated in favor of "alternative media". That is the conservative version of being "politically correct". And to say that conservatives cannot practice "political correctness" is the same as some academics who say that it is impossible for minorities to be racists because they are on the short end of the power structure.
Not all information sources are created equal. And while it is a law of nature that the profession of journalism tends to attract those who have a tendency towards political liberalism (just as the military and law enforcement professions tend to attract the more conservative-minded), it is ridiculous to throw the baby out with the bathwater and then begin to gravitate towards fringe media (internet/newspaper/radio/etc).
If my plumber wants to yammer about how he hates the current occupant of the WhiteHouse, I'd prefer he didn't in my house, but what I care about is that he can fix my broken shower drain, not whether he has his head on straight politically. If I need a lawyer to draw up a contract or a will, I don't care if she is a tree hugger, so long as she does her job well. When I want a job done right, I want a professional. Why should it be different with information?
I don't care that 90% of media professionals are liberal in their private lives. I just want to know that when they are telling me something blew up last night in Iraq and X number of people are dead, that the information is timely and accurate. I can ignore the spin just as I can the plumber or lawyer. "Just the facts ma'am."
It is tempting to hope that an alternative media source is going to uncover the nugget of information that the "lamestream" media ignores (Iran-Contra broke in a small, anti-American Lebanese rag and Lewinsky was revealed by the Inquirer), but the cost is too high. For every nugget of gold you get tons of sewage, and if you use unreliable sources to buttress your arguments, you discredit yourself. Homeruns are a lot more sexy than singles or walks, but getting on base is what is important. Swinging for the rafters all the time will get your batting average in the basement.
"Connecting the dots" does not have a magic shortcut. It is tedious and excruciating and going to sources who promise a hidden scoop is to follow a Pied Piper. I am not trashing all the stations, sites, and papers who are "cutting edge". All I am saying is that tolerance does not require an abandonment of rationality.
When a group of people (a thread, a party, or a nation) adopt a relativistic view of truth, it always ends in disaster. Not all stories/facts/opinions/ideas are created equal. When linking to a site or referencing a source, it is a worthwhile to go back over not just weeks, but months and years to seeing what their "batting average" is. They might have been the first to break a story, but over the years, they may also be peddling lies. Worse than pretending all sources are created equal is to suggest that because most who choose journalism as a profession share opinions contrary to ours, the "professionals" with their reporters around the globe gathering information, editors sifting fact form trash, and columnists who since the founding of our country have enlightened the national debate, should be discarded entirely.
Tinfoil is ok once in a while. 9/11 on 9/10 would have sounded "tinfoily". But it is like declaring a nationwide "orange alert", if you do it every time you see a threat, you defeat the purpose by discrediting yourself. Conventional "lamestream" sources are not sexy, and it is harder to have to take the dots and connect them one by one over time than to buy into fantastical/fanatical theories that purport to pull all the dots together to form a grand picture. But the hare did not beat the tortoise. The tortoise beat the hare.
This has become the "Tinfoil Matrix", not the "Threat Matrix".
Two questions one should ask before posting:
1) Is the source I am using more accurate in reporting facts on their best day than the New York Times is on its worst day? (Over time, do the assertions of an information site/source bear themselves out as truth at a higher rate than the least respected source of conventional news) For a large portion (maybe even a majority) of the sources referenced lately on this thread, the answer is "no". (Reporting what jihadis are mouthing in their media is different in that it comes with the disclaimer that much of it is disinformation, most is unreliable, it has an agenda (more than any liberal here in America), and the sources not only are politically imbalanced (extremely), but exhibit signs of mental imbalance as well.)
2) If I stood up and read my post to a group of my friends and family, would they attempt an "intervention" and seek to have me involuntarily committed to a windowless institution with padded walls and nice doctors with white lab coats?
It, like everything in life, is a balance. Too little of the "cutting edge" and things become dull, narrow-minded, and tunnel-visioned. Too much "cutting edge" and everything falls to pieces.
It's remarkable how little tension (relatively speaking) is present on this thread, but perhaps the reason is that there is such an absence of self-criticism. The "tolerant" environment on this thread (that "anything goes") like appeasement, encourages aggression (against the truth and even sanity).
Like I said, this is not about the last few days, but something that has been developing over weeks if not months. A good thread that was a "market" for trading diverse information has become so cluttered with the bizarre and the extreme that it risks no longer being part of "the market of ideas" and instead becoming the "bizarre bazaar".
Again, I am not directing this at any particular person or topic, but others have remarked in recent days that the thread is going into the ditch. Just making some general observations and (hopefully)constructive criticisms. If I didn't respect the people on here or cared where the thread goes from here, I wouldn't have wasted my time typing this.
My two cents and a good day to all.
Perhaps you could enlighten me . . .
WHAT EXACTLY
is NOT
terrifying
about massive deaths from meteors/quakes/ . . . . [insert calamity of choice] . . .
alone . . .
as well as
followed by massive stirring of the chaotic pot afterward by Jihadi's???
Thanks. I appreciated the added bit about the airport confirmation.
According to Aussie Bloke
June 8-9 Dust cloud begins to reach earth and darkening skies
June 18-20 1st impact
June 24-25 2nd impact
June 27-28 3rd impact of the “anomaly”
I posted an article in Portugese which someone had translated.
I certainly think that there was *something* there, if only because the folks at the airport saw it as well. Spacejunk, maybe?
I'd be more than happy to follow Matapam and others suggestion to revive the meteor thread here on FR.
It sounds like it would be a good idea, if for no other reason, than to preserve the harmony on this thread.
Besides, if anything Really big happens, you all will hear about it!!
:)
Freepmail me if you want to be on a meteor ping list.
I think the truckers are given the number after they've completed their threat awareness training.
that was it!
I agree that not all sources are created equal.
You make many good points.
My
PERSONAL BIAS, PREFERENCE
IS
to have a MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF INFO and make my own sorting, sifting, analyzing decisions.
My scroll and page down buttons work VERY WELL.
AND,
I have my boss's observations that it was the
VERY FLAKEY, VERY FRINGE organizations, publications, leaflets, posters, pamphlets in prewar Germany which
MOST AND VERY ACCURATELY PREDICTED WHAT HITLER WOULD DO AND WHAT HE WAS AND STOOD FOR.
OF COURSE it's hard to sift through tons of fertilizer and find the swallowed diamond. But it may be crucial to do.
AND THIS IS THE BEST GROUP, perhaps only ongoingly available group OF ALERT PEOPLE, IN MY OBSERVATION, TO DO IT. Those not wanting to do that--ARE MORE THAN WELCOME TO SCROLL ON BY.
I can't tell for sure, but it would appear that no one else on here has had any job related experience sorting through and preparing for library patrons tons and tons of fringe materials. I assure you, this is the best group I've ever come across for giving worthy insights in such a sifting process.
Who knows how crucial even part of this groups' analysis of 'tinfoil' docs will turn out to be.
We did not know until afterward, as this morning's testimony is abundantly showing, how inadequately prepared our defenses of DC and the chain of comman communications were in terms of getting planes in the air with authorization to shoot down hijacked aircraft bent on destroying our White House, Pentegon or Capital. ANY discussion before hand about such, as you note, would have been considered tinfoil by most of the tinfoil 'addicts.'
I don't think a static rule or line would work as to what was kosher or not.
I don't really care how flakey some doc is. I can tell quickly enough in the first few lines whether it's worth my time or not. I prefer the option of making that decision myself.
Even when we are posting in great detail very seriously researched and documented bona fide Al Qaeda or some such docs, MOST OF IT on reflection hours to days later has been RELATIVELY--
CHAFF.
No biggy. Of course that will be true.
On occasion, we come up with nuggets. Occasionally there are insights, counsel, advice data points which are worthy extended pondering and/or some action of use to one's life, family, community, nation. But rarely so to any great degree.
So what. It's still WORTH IT.
It's the nature of life and reality. ANY TOPIC will have tons of chaff.
The 911 hearings have had tons of chaff though supposedly every witness and every question were vitally important at such levels of government.
I realize that tinfoil chaff is more annoying and distasteful to some hereon than other kinds of chaff. But logically, chaff is chaff and nuggets are nuggets regardless of where or what process they come from.
I'm exceedingly comfortable with each poster deciding on their own what's worth posting. All readers have to decide what's worth reading all of whether it's obviously Al Qaeda connected or not.
By it's nature, this thread and group MUST CAST A WIDE NET or else the whole effort is a sham. We MUST cast a wide enough net that we avoid missing clues to the next 911 . . . or to avoid missing clues to what the Jihadi's would do THE HOURS AND WEEKS FOLLOWING
THE NEXT 911
OR THE NEXT NATURAL DISASTER.
They clearly are intent on racheting things up to where they are inflicting disaster after disaster on us week after week.
That's a pretty broad set of boundaries, set of contingencies.
Thanks.
Didn't have time to scroll back through so many msgs.
Much appreciated.
Happy to be on your meteor list. Thanks.
Around the holidays, Sean used to post updates on FR.
I took a look at the "Final Phase" forum and noticed that he had posted this report. I do believe that he has a good handle on what is truly going on.
6/16/04
Re: On GPS-
I have been working on our brand new vehicle known as Battle Command on the Quick Halt (BCOTQH). It's a 1.5 meter Ku band sat dish which auto acquires any satellite once valid GPS data is gain from either a Garmin GPS or Army standard PLGR.
For the past two weeks the system has operated flawlessly acquiring various "birds". A rigorous calibration and system certification procedure requiring multiple GPS fixes went flawlessly. Not even so much as degraded signal.
Sooo... my guess is NJ shore is in an unaffected region.
That said...
I do hear persistent reports that another major area of GPS outages is in the NORTHLANT. I don't know the specifics, but that general region of open ocean is affected.
I also hear that a major search is ongoing for "al-Qaeda" vessels. A naval picket line off both coasts is said to be actively searching for AQ vessels.
If such a vessel is located my guess is that it will be over flown by sophisticated surveillance aircraft and given a real good "sniffing".
I also highly suspect that the intent of wide-area GPS denial is to force all ships to turn on their surface search and navigation radars.
How do you find the proverbial "needle in a haystack"? You use an magnet. An electromagnetic receiver to be precise and several of them.
Edited by: Sean Osborne Lomax at: 6/16/04
Much appreciated. Thanks.
It has several important bits of info.
Sometimes these things need to be said and you said it very well. Worth more than two cents in my opinion.
Well this could be quite the very odd way of screwing up major routes if someone so desired. Somehow a fire started IN the historic Park Street Bridge (the one that crosses 163 in Balboa Park). It has been going on for about three hours. It was about 100 feet above the air when it was at it's worst, but now they are trying to figure out how to get IN the bridge enough to get it out.
This isn't a major bridge used by commuters to cross, but because it goes OVER a freeway that a huge percentage of workers going downtown use, that freeway is closed forcing everyone to try and find alternate routes and it has backed up traffic on all other freeways due to a three hour closure that's now going to enter the middle of morning rush hour.
Can you imagine if they found a way to do this intentionally to bridges in/out of cities or highly traveled bridges? It would be another way of shutting down things or trapping people/in out.
After the big rig freeway incidents and talk about bridges, I thought I'd post this and add it to the "if someone could plan something like this it could be trouble" list.
I don't know if I'm explaining it very well (what actually is currently happening) but perhaps one of the other more local folks can add to what they're seeing!
The CHP log on it is very interesting. You will find it either under Hot Spots (middle column drop down) or San Diego (in the left column) as "Structure or Grass Fire - SB 163 at Park" http://cad.chp.ca.gov/
It is possible that it fell into the ocean, I do not think that one article was enough to really do anything more than assume... Has there been any more information regardint the story?
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