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To: alnick
With all due respect, the only reason Bush won in 2000 was because God thwarted every attempt at voter fraud

There were still many, many instances of Democrat voter fraud. I think it's a litle blasphemous to claim the God gets involved in electoral politics.

God has blessed this country in times of need with the right leaders at the right time.

Explain 8 years of Clinton, then. No, we can't blame or praise God for the governments we get. At the end of the day, we are fully responsible for our leaders.

204 posted on 06/10/2004 8:07:43 AM PDT by Modernman (It's true hard work never killed anybody, but I figure, why take the chance? -Ronald Reagan)
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To: .30Carbine
For God. For Country. For yourself.
For the Gipper. Vote Bush!

208 posted on 06/10/2004 8:14:48 AM PDT by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do!)
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To: Modernman
God has blessed this country in times of need with the right leaders at the right time.

Explain 8 years of Clinton, then. No, we can't blame or praise God for the governments we get. At the end of the day, we are fully responsible for our leaders.

I disagree on a few levels, at least from a faith-based (Christian) perspective.

There are many references to the responsibility of not only choosing leaders, but of choosing good, upstanding, moral leaders. To those for whom the Bible is a reference, or is meaningful, look in Exodus, Judges, Proverbs, Romans, 1 Timothy, Hebrews,and 1 Peter. They say some very interesting things, such as:

---Leaders are to select qualified subordinate leaders, to help govern the people (Exodus);
---Sometimes, in judgment of Israel, God allowed bad leaders to overtake His people. Oppressed, the people would cry out to God, and He would send a righteous judge to conquer the evil force, and bring peace...at least until the judge died, and the people returned to wickedness (Judges);
---A verse in Proverbs says that the heart of the king is in the hands of the Lord, and that like a watercourse (river), He directs it;
---The Apostle Paul said that it is the duty of EVERYONE to submit to the governing authorities, because no authority existed that God didn't establish, and then he said it again for effect. He went on to say that those who rebel against such authority are actually rebelling against God Himself, inviting judgment on themselves (Romans 13:1-7)
---1 Timothy talks about prayer for, and submission to,all those in authority (Chapter 2);
---The unknown writer to the Hebrews said that we are to respect our leaders and to submit to their authority, and to do it so that the leaders' job would be a joy, not a burden (Hebrews 13);
---finally, the Apostle Peter talked about submission FOR THE LORD'S SAKE to every authority instituted among men--kings, governors...he also said that slaves (or currently translated, citizens, employees, et.al) should submit to their leaders with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh (1 Peter 2).

While I could not more categorically disagree that we cannot praise God for our leaders, I do agree that we cannot blame God for our leaders. We are responsible for them, through the wonderful process known as elections.

For those who say that we the people have no voice, all you have to do is look at the California Governor recall. Popular liberal governor, just reelected, booted out of office a year later.

So that is my perspective from a faith-based (Christian) point of view. As for the atheist, God-hating view...well, I can't speak to either, because I am neither. IMHO, if you are an atheist or a (true-God)hater, you have much bigger problems than who wins in any election.

266 posted on 06/10/2004 9:39:57 AM PDT by Christian4Bush (I approve this message: character and integrity matter. Bush/Cheney for '04.)
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To: Modernman
There were still many, many instances of Democrat voter fraud. I think it's a litle blasphemous to claim the God gets involved in electoral politics.

Yes, there were, but they didn't push Gore over the edge, did they? They tried every trick in the book, but nothing worked. Bush won every recount. I see God's hand in that.

Notice I didn't say that God made people vote any particular way, but I do believe he prevented Gore's fraud from changing the outcome.

As to the upcoming election, I pray daily that God will grant wisdom and guidance to the voters. I do not pray for anyone to vote for any particular candidate.

319 posted on 06/10/2004 2:00:24 PM PDT by alnick (Goodbye, Mr. President.)
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