Posted on 05/30/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Badray
Party over Principle?
That is the $64,000.00 question.
This past Friday morning, Arlen Specter was at a town hall meeting in Ross Township (suburb north of Pittsburgh PA). According to Specter staffer Justin Lokay, this was at the suggestion of Lou Nudi, the Ross Committee Chairman.
There were about 35 people in attendance including the Senator and 5 or 6 staffers and interns. Also there was Congresswoman Melissa Hart, State Senator John Pippy, former Hart staffer and 16th state house district candidate Pat Geho, former row office candidate Becky Toomey (oh, the irony, but she is still the prettiest, and my favorite Specter supporter), Lou Nudi, as well as some various other local committee people. Arriving late as usual was State Representative Jeff Habay. More on him later.
I arrived shortly before the meeting started and checked to see if I was on the PNG (persona non grata) list, but was welcomed in, much to my surprise because I have been barred from previous events. I sat and listened to how conservative values were important to Arlen, how much he enjoys being around G.W.Bush, and how we must defeat the Democrats.
This is a pretty stock speech when he tries to court Republicans. Sadly too many pubbies have short memories and actually believe Arlen when he speaks. He invoked the name of his recent challenger, Pat Toomey and says that he enjoys his support because the Dem candidate is so bad. Yada, yada, yada . . .
He then tried to ingratiate himself by mentioning the names of several people in the crowd. There names were conveniently written on the cue card in his hand. The whole thing was a sad charade, but that didn't stop many from sucking it up. I don't know if they were all die hard supporters or simply supporting the "R" against the horrible "D" that looms ahead if we don't support Arlen.
He then 'yielded' to Melissa Hart. She yucked it up with him for a moment (Think Sonny and Cher, except that Sonny was the conservative, not Cher.) before he stepped aside. About now, there should have been a commercial break, but they continued anyway. Melissa then spoke in glowing terms of Arlen and how important it was to put Arlen into office so that he could chair the Judiciary Committee and help get Bush's judicial nominees approved. She cited the brave defense of former PA Attorney General Mike Fisher when some Democrats posed some minor opposition to Mike's approval. Thank God, Arlen was there to save the day and he convinced the Dems not to block him. BTW, Fisher was supported in his quest for the bench by his recent opponent for the Governor's office - Democrat Governor Ed Rendell. Gee, that must have been a tough fight, Arlen.
What no Borking of Fisher? Don't worry, if Mike starts to make some sound judgements, you can bet that Arlen will apologize like he did after fighting for Clarence Thomas.
Melissa was about 3 minutes into her praise when I just couldn't take it any longer. There she was defending the man that has been pissing on us for years and she was calling it rain. I walked out. On the way out, I said to her brother that I just couldn't stand the BS.
I stayed outside for the remainder of the meeting. I missed the Q and A session, but was told that there was only one tough question asked and that Arlen spent about ten minutes addressing it. The question may have hit a nerve, but I doubt that he will do anything more than pay lip service to it.
Some good news. There was some who expressed continued opposition to him despite coming to be convinced that they should now be supporting him.
I did tell Melissa's aide that I was not alone in my displeasure with her support of Arlen. She may or may not care, but I am sure that I am quite right in my assessment. She is putting the party before any principle she ever espoused and this will cost her later.
Another person that I engaged was Rep. Habay. He arrived only after I had left the meeting and was outside for about 15 minutes. He approached me as he entered the building and I greeted him with a snide remark that he resembled a man that I used to know and told him that I was disappointed in his support for Arlen. He told me that Arlen helped him early in his 'career' (God, I hate that word when applied to politicians.) and that he was repaying the favor. (Doesn't the mob do favors now for favors in the future too?) I told him that that is what happens when you get into bed with the wrong people. He started getting testy at that point (I have to keep the BAD in badray, ya know) and retorted that he wasn't in bed with anyone, but that he would be glad to sit down and discuss the issue with me. I said OK, but he needed to dig himself out of a big hole. Walking away, he said that he was very comfortable in his position. I thanked him for telling me what I needed to know as he turned the corner (more than metaphorically?).
Just before Arlen came out, I spoke to County GOP Chairman Rich Stampahar and he tried to convince me that Specter was the man to support. His pleas fell on deaf ears, but they were overheard by an intern of Specter's who wimpily came over to tell me that this was a private event and asked me not to create a disturbance. I replied only that I was talking to people that knew me and approached me and wasn't talking to any one else. Can you imagine anyone thinking that I would cause a disturbance? LOL Not me, I'm too shy.
On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.
Maybe I'm just not a 'good republican'. Maybe I'm an 'unappeasable'. Maybe I am a purist. I've been called all of these things and more. And worse.
What I do know is that I cannot support this man. Not for party loyalty, not even for the Senate majority (we do not effectively have it now because of people like Specter). I also know that it is not out of bitterness or hatred. It's just principle. He doesn't believe the things that I believe. He doesn't value the things that I value. His vision of America is not my vision.
This November, a vote for Democrat Joe Hoeffel is a vote to put a true conservative, a true Republican in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm voting for Joe.
Ray Horvath
and of coarse it will be LEGAL because sphencter will have loaded the SCOTUS up with 3 or 4 more babykiller Judges.
Actually, I think you and I are on the same side of things here. I find Badray to be a disgraced American by not following Toomy's lead and endorsing Spector. Instead, Badray slides between the sheets with Hillary. Shame.
you mean the blind side? unable OR more likely, unwilling to recognise the danger and the huge Judicial slide to the left that will occur when Specter takes the chair od the SJC.
let the cloning begin!! shouts the Specter crowd. Abortion on demand, for all the world!...how "progressive" you are.
Another fine mature debator. Badray is the one that should say shame to YOU.
What are you? Vince Foster to Badray's Hillary Clinton?
Very mature. I sure your party would be proud of you, also. Can't you discuss anything ? Must you make only vicious and crude attacks ? If not it is obvious what lies in the future for the Republican party. It makes me proud.
Trillium, is this who you include in your "big tent"?
Bush is trying to do what is right. Right is all tied up with a thing called moral principle...and fundamental moral principle, like what this nation was founded iupon, like our unalienable rights...come from God.
I do not buy into your "Big Tent" symbology...it imples far too much of today's "stregnth through diversity".
Well, I have news for you. The root of diversity and diverse is divide. We are not strong because we are dicverse...strong because we bring whatever diversity in cultural background to the fundamental uniting principles that are America. Those are and always have been faith in God, moral principle, liberty with accountability and a can-do, positive attitude. They make us uniquely "American" and will be what wins out in the end if this nation is to survive.
We must be united in these qualities...or there is no tent.
The problem the GOP has had for some time is that they have allowed some terrible camels to get first their noses, and then their entire bodies under the flap. Specter is representative of this.
If you believe that the conservative "social" issues (and I read that as Moral issues) are not too important in the platform any more...IMHO you are way out in left field. Try reading the Texas platform some time.
As it is...we are beating a dead horse. We have both stated our own positions many times on this thread and I am now content to leave it at that and let the readers and lurkers make up their own minds.
You can therefore have whatever last word while I pay Pay Tribute to the Gipper
This statement tells it all. You are describing nothing more than a party that stands for nothing more than power...no principles. You are describing the perfect party of Karl Marx. The more I read the more disenchanted I become with "The Party"
Who's playing a victim? Certainly not me. I haven't cried about any personal attacks on me and there have been plenty. I reported your post because I believe it to be more fitting of Howard Stern's show than Jim Robinson's board.
The message is real, but it was a private email. I will not violate that privacy, but if the poster is proud of his/her peabrain mentality, he/she can claim it as their own.
I'm still waiting for your explanation -- I no longer believe that you are capable of an apology.
You said that name calling and personal attacks were proof of not having a defensible position. Yet you ignore all of the nasty personal attacks against me including your own where you mad a comment about my mother.
Are you going to continue to pontificate about your high and mighty position and control of the party while ignoring your own shameful behavior?
In the post that I am replying to you remark that social issues are no longer as important to the party as they were in 1988 or 1992. What happened to your earlier statement that the party has never been conservative? Are you just making things up as you go or are you that stupid to remember the lies that you've already told?
Your credibility is zero.
Maybe just to tick you off.
But more likely because it has been posted so many times already and the comparison is between liberal republicans and conservative democrats.
Try to keep up.
I am not a disgraced American, but I am a BAD American.
I'm a Bad American
Author: Unknown
This pretty much sums it up for me.
I like big cars, big boats, big houses, and naturally, pretty women.
I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid level governmental functionary with a bad comb over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.
I don't care about appearing compassionate.
I think playing with toy guns doesn't make you a killer - I believe ignoring your kids and giving them Prozac might.
I think I'm doing better than the homeless.
I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized.
I have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird or piss me off. This is my life to live, and not necessarily up to others expectations.
I know what SEX is and there are not varying degrees of it.
I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; just don't feel like everyone else should have to.
I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English.
As of matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English. My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it.
I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word freeze or stop in English, see the previous line.
I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as a shield for unpopular opinions or actions. I know how to count votes and I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation recount when needed. I know what the definition of lying is, and it isn't based on the word "is" - ever.
I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you qualify for any special loan programs, gov't sponsored bank loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, 7-Eleven, trinket shop, or any damn thing else, while the indigenous peoples can't get past a high school education if they can't afford it.
I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet.
I thought the Taco Bell dog was funny.
I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks.
I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne, Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped at a red light. But I respect your right to.
I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box.
I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite or fat-free on the package.
Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said - now leave the document the hell alone, or there's going to be trouble.
I don't hate the rich.
I help the poor.
I know wrestling is fake.
I've never owned or was a slave, and a large percentage or our forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop blaming me because some prior white people were idiots - and remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too - it was wrong for every one of them.
I believe a self-righteous liberal with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.
I want to know which church is it exactly, where the "Reverend" Jesse Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function.
I own a gun, you can own a gun, and any red blooded American should be allowed to own a gun, but if you use it in a crime then you will serve the time.
I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it pisses you off, invent the next operating system that's better and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you.
I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it pisses me off.
You're telling me that someone who is a minority, gay, disabled, another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream of this country has more value as a human being that I do as a white male. Hell, if someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate crime.
We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have.
I think turkey bacon, turkey beef, turkey fake anything sucks.
I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child - it takes a parent with the ability to stand up to the kid and spank his butt and say "NO!" when it's necessary to do so.
I'll admit that the only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller.
I didn't realize Dr. Seuss was a genius until I had a kid.
I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings.
I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.
Yes, I guess by some peoples' definition, I may be a bad American. But that's tough!
I may be a BAD American and that means that I am definitely NOT a disgraced American.
No, you are a disgraced American. I hope at your home flys the flag upside down.
Great post.
Ray, I have asked the same question of Trillium numerous times but it seems to fall on deaf ears. I guess this is why they think that Specter, even after the vicious attacking campaign he ran, still fits inside the "big tent". As long as that "R" is still on his registration card.
I don't think that you should feel ashamed unless you have supported the ones in that wing of the party, which I doubt that you did.
In case you missed it earlier, I tell people that I am reluctantly a Republican. I support the platform of the party. I just don't support the many politicians who claim to be Republican, but don't support or agree with the platform.
Only when a good candidate is available will I support them with my efforts and my money. I refuse to support an "R" that doesn't have the same world view that I hold and will not carry the shame that they generate with their actions. If an "R" and a "D" are going to do the same thing, I would rather have the "D" get the blame for it than the "R". That way people will know the difference between the two.
Thanks. As soon as I saw that phrase, I remembered that was posted here a few years back and thought that it was the perfect time to repost it.
BTW, I now have to pay every time that I go out. All my highway funds have been rescinded. LOL
Post 800 - wow.
Sorry for the delay in replying - been a busy weekend.
We're going to just have to agree to disagree on who is the majority (pro-life vs. pro-abortion in the GOP), but for you (in another post) to claim that pro-lifers are no more or less improtant of a "faction" than Log Cabin Republicans shows you are in denial about the current makeup of our party.
You'll know this if you truly are an insider (or who I think you might be) - Tom Ridge was Bush's top choice for VP - a Catholic vet who could help carry a swing state (PA) - but was scuttled at the last minute when polling showed that a pro-abortion VP would cause the pro-lifers to desert Bush in droves. Somehow, I don't think the views of the Log Cabinites held the same weight.
One final point about abortion and the GOP, then I'll leave debate to the others. I have a real problem with people who pigeonhole abortion as an issue strictly for the "religious right." (Italics in honor of your posts).
Personally, I belong to a church (PCUSA) that maintains a pro-abortion position - I'm not happy about it, and I work to change it, just like in the GOP. I haven't left, but the day may come when I might - just like the GOP. In your post, you alternately encourage us to start our own party, then chastise us for threatening to leave. Which is it?
To me, abortion is fundamentally a human rights issue. Why do the unborn deserve less legal protection that the rest of us? Liberty and the pursuit of happiness are meaningless without life. I would hope, being intellectually honest, that even if I were a godless athiest I would view it the same way - why are some human lives valued less than others? If it wasn't applicable with slavery, why is the same thinking applicable with abortion? The honest answer is, like slaves in days past, the unborn lack the means to defend themselves and their human rights, and they need others to defend them for them.
BTW - I strongly believe with the view that one day, should it survive, our nation will view abortion the same way we now view slavery. Our desecendents will read about it in the history books and wonder, "What were they thinking?"
So, I (and other pro-lifers) will continue to fight for our beliefs within the GOP - your presumption that our "radical religious" views are not welcome strikes me as arrogant and only serves to motivate me even more.
In time, we will prevail within the GOP (and the nation) for one reason - the truth is on our side.
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