Posted on 05/30/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Badray
Party over Principle?
That is the $64,000.00 question.
This past Friday morning, Arlen Specter was at a town hall meeting in Ross Township (suburb north of Pittsburgh PA). According to Specter staffer Justin Lokay, this was at the suggestion of Lou Nudi, the Ross Committee Chairman.
There were about 35 people in attendance including the Senator and 5 or 6 staffers and interns. Also there was Congresswoman Melissa Hart, State Senator John Pippy, former Hart staffer and 16th state house district candidate Pat Geho, former row office candidate Becky Toomey (oh, the irony, but she is still the prettiest, and my favorite Specter supporter), Lou Nudi, as well as some various other local committee people. Arriving late as usual was State Representative Jeff Habay. More on him later.
I arrived shortly before the meeting started and checked to see if I was on the PNG (persona non grata) list, but was welcomed in, much to my surprise because I have been barred from previous events. I sat and listened to how conservative values were important to Arlen, how much he enjoys being around G.W.Bush, and how we must defeat the Democrats.
This is a pretty stock speech when he tries to court Republicans. Sadly too many pubbies have short memories and actually believe Arlen when he speaks. He invoked the name of his recent challenger, Pat Toomey and says that he enjoys his support because the Dem candidate is so bad. Yada, yada, yada . . .
He then tried to ingratiate himself by mentioning the names of several people in the crowd. There names were conveniently written on the cue card in his hand. The whole thing was a sad charade, but that didn't stop many from sucking it up. I don't know if they were all die hard supporters or simply supporting the "R" against the horrible "D" that looms ahead if we don't support Arlen.
He then 'yielded' to Melissa Hart. She yucked it up with him for a moment (Think Sonny and Cher, except that Sonny was the conservative, not Cher.) before he stepped aside. About now, there should have been a commercial break, but they continued anyway. Melissa then spoke in glowing terms of Arlen and how important it was to put Arlen into office so that he could chair the Judiciary Committee and help get Bush's judicial nominees approved. She cited the brave defense of former PA Attorney General Mike Fisher when some Democrats posed some minor opposition to Mike's approval. Thank God, Arlen was there to save the day and he convinced the Dems not to block him. BTW, Fisher was supported in his quest for the bench by his recent opponent for the Governor's office - Democrat Governor Ed Rendell. Gee, that must have been a tough fight, Arlen.
What no Borking of Fisher? Don't worry, if Mike starts to make some sound judgements, you can bet that Arlen will apologize like he did after fighting for Clarence Thomas.
Melissa was about 3 minutes into her praise when I just couldn't take it any longer. There she was defending the man that has been pissing on us for years and she was calling it rain. I walked out. On the way out, I said to her brother that I just couldn't stand the BS.
I stayed outside for the remainder of the meeting. I missed the Q and A session, but was told that there was only one tough question asked and that Arlen spent about ten minutes addressing it. The question may have hit a nerve, but I doubt that he will do anything more than pay lip service to it.
Some good news. There was some who expressed continued opposition to him despite coming to be convinced that they should now be supporting him.
I did tell Melissa's aide that I was not alone in my displeasure with her support of Arlen. She may or may not care, but I am sure that I am quite right in my assessment. She is putting the party before any principle she ever espoused and this will cost her later.
Another person that I engaged was Rep. Habay. He arrived only after I had left the meeting and was outside for about 15 minutes. He approached me as he entered the building and I greeted him with a snide remark that he resembled a man that I used to know and told him that I was disappointed in his support for Arlen. He told me that Arlen helped him early in his 'career' (God, I hate that word when applied to politicians.) and that he was repaying the favor. (Doesn't the mob do favors now for favors in the future too?) I told him that that is what happens when you get into bed with the wrong people. He started getting testy at that point (I have to keep the BAD in badray, ya know) and retorted that he wasn't in bed with anyone, but that he would be glad to sit down and discuss the issue with me. I said OK, but he needed to dig himself out of a big hole. Walking away, he said that he was very comfortable in his position. I thanked him for telling me what I needed to know as he turned the corner (more than metaphorically?).
Just before Arlen came out, I spoke to County GOP Chairman Rich Stampahar and he tried to convince me that Specter was the man to support. His pleas fell on deaf ears, but they were overheard by an intern of Specter's who wimpily came over to tell me that this was a private event and asked me not to create a disturbance. I replied only that I was talking to people that knew me and approached me and wasn't talking to any one else. Can you imagine anyone thinking that I would cause a disturbance? LOL Not me, I'm too shy.
On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.
Maybe I'm just not a 'good republican'. Maybe I'm an 'unappeasable'. Maybe I am a purist. I've been called all of these things and more. And worse.
What I do know is that I cannot support this man. Not for party loyalty, not even for the Senate majority (we do not effectively have it now because of people like Specter). I also know that it is not out of bitterness or hatred. It's just principle. He doesn't believe the things that I believe. He doesn't value the things that I value. His vision of America is not my vision.
This November, a vote for Democrat Joe Hoeffel is a vote to put a true conservative, a true Republican in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm voting for Joe.
Ray Horvath
Having a hard time finding a picture of Arlen, are you ? And it took you 26 minutes ? Very impressive.
Huh, I guess the picture in reply #719, hits a bit too close to home for you.
Now if you just had an opinion that mattered to anyone but yourself.
Socialists have also infiltrated the Republican Party, just not as much so as the Democrat Party.
You are correct, the only way to turn this thing around is for conservatives, to take back the Republican Party from within. It won't be easy, but it can be done, It is happening in a few states. Sadly most aren't willing to put forth the effort, or won't learn how it can be done.
It is refreshing to see that there are others, like you, who understand what the solution is, and are willing to take on the responsibility of leading others in the process.
That's nowhere clear. You have access to internal polls that haven't been disseminated? I could make the same claim (I'm not, but I could). It's meaningless unless you can prove it. As to why so many pro-abortion Republicans are in office, do you think that the support of your party hierarchy counts for nothing? Challenging these people after they have your support is a very difficult job, since the challengers have to start from scratch while the party-hierarchy-supported candidate has a ready-to-go organization in place. And we still came within a hair of defeating a very powerful senator in the primary! I suspect the party hierarchy is quite worried about what that must mean. And when Arlen loses in November, they may be even more worried.
From Toomey to McClintock to Craswell to Considine to any number of pro-life candidates, they just can't get traction.
See above.
If you think that Rockefeller Republicans, or "country-club" Republicans are the enemy, you will never find a good fit in the Republican Party, because they are the heart and soul (and bank account) of the Party.
You really think so? As to the heart and soul, I strongly dispute that. As to the bank account, I thought there were a great many more small contributions from regular people to the Republican party than to the Democrats. Let me pose a hypothetical question to you. When we finish assuming control of the Republican party from you, will you stay inside the "big tent" even if you're not in the driver's seat, or will you bolt to the other side? You seem to think we'll stay forever because we have nowhere else to go. If the shoe was on the other foot what would you do?
Toomey, a virtual unknown 18months before the election came within 6000 votes of unseating a 4 term ranking senator. and without repeated endorsements from "supposed" uberconservative (rick) and the sitting President of the United States and thousands of cross-over DEMS, like Dane. and thousands of scared or confused conservatives like Tamsey, Specter would be toast, done, fini, kaput, history. so much for you "majority" .
though I dispise his values and his party and his politics for a short moment, when specter loses, he will be. then when I turn around and see Sen. Kyl sitting in the chairmans seat in the Senate judiciary committee then Sen. Kyl will be my new hero. LOL
how any TRUE conservative could put faith in the word of a man that considers it good science to clone, grow, then harvest little babies for "parts" is beyond me.
:-(
taking away the personal commentaries, i agree. Pat Toomey although somewhat known in eastern PA, came out of the gate with fire under his heels and effectively (with the help of many, many supporters) achieved a great accomplishment. the narrow margin by which Specter ultimately won in the primary should inspire we conservatives to move forward in our quest to get the "on the fence", "easily influenced" and untrustworthy "public servants" out. it is a big job, yes. but one election at a time, taking care to research secondary results of one or another being elected or defeated.
further, i believe we have sent a message that we do not want Specter or people like him in office. the drive to vote for Hoeffel, rather than simply suck it up and vote for Specter because he is the "R" on the ballot will contradict what has been accomplished however. yes, Hoeffel is a liberal dem. we know he will likely vote with his party most, if not all of the time. but that IS the difference. we know. we can find ways to communicate with other senators, congresspeople to make sure they are voting to the conservative. we cannot trust EVER that Specter will vote in line with his party. therefore, we cannot plan for compensating for his betrayals...he's a sniper. you never know where or when he will strike! i'd rather know...to have the guy out in plain sight. maybe i have a chance to avoid the bullets.
not a problem...i think sometimes though, good points can become diluted by the personal comments.
i like the idea of being able to share and learn opinions, positions and facts i may not have been aware...but ultimately, we cannot accompany people into the booth. we all do as we wish. the next few months we can only hope that we may be able to enlighten or encourage some to realize the big picture.
although i have been on FR several times in the past, yesterday was the first time i posted.
thanks for your response!
BTW, when i called Dane a Dem. it was based on his own admittion. Re;post #651
and of coarse the "squishy" is a "Rushism" ;o)
yes, i read that regarding his political affiliation and of course am quite aware of the rushisms. i love rush!
my line on the commentaries was a general one, not directed to you specifically. it seems many on FR take the winding road to what may be the same end, but is convoluted by the twists and turns of personal remarks.
as an aside to all...we (well those of us who live in counties that are heavily populated by registered dems, such as allegheny county pennsylvania) should not speak as though we do not want dems...we, actually, need dems when it comes time to vote. if all dems voted strictly on party lines, there would never be an "R" in office in allegheny county. there are many reasons one registers one way or another. it seems to me a large number look it as a blood line rather than a party line. "my dad was a democrat, so i am a democrat" and the like. but as i have stated in an earlier posting, there are "R"s and "D"s that run the spectrum from conservative to moderate to liberal...as we all know and have seen. getting those who are conservative to recognize that they will not go to hell if they re-register as "R"s is, in my opinion, a big key in raising the numbers. alrighty....i'm done for the moment.
Do you realize that the RINO establishment of the NJ GOP completely screwed Bret over? BTW, Bret's gonna win next year. You heard it here first.
"Well maybe your right, ironic is not the correct word, maybe backstabbing towards the public endorsement of Spector by Toomey is more apt."
"public endorsement"? yes, he was endorsed by bush and santorum (i am confident, not based upon any great feats of specter, but for their own ends and only because he is the incumbent) in the primary.
now that specter is the "R" on the ballot he is being "endorsed" for that reason, alone, by many party members. however, i, (and i believe quite a few here), are not inclined to have our votes dictated to us by a letter alone. unless, of course, "the public" refers to yourself, bush, santorum, hart, habay and of course, the masses who simply play follow the leader and do not appreciate or understand the value of their own vote and find out who the people are whose names preceed the "R" or the "D". not just specter and hoeffel, but kyl, and any others who's positions are affected by which contender ultimately prevails in november.
Do you realize that you guys are trying to do the same only to spectre instead ? At least Toomey had the good sense to run in a primary and then support the winner after losing.
Since this was sent to me privately, I will not reveal the sender's identity. He or she is perfectly welcome to claim 'credit' for it if they have the nerve or are not embarassed to have it known that their thought process is non functioning.
This was the latest in a long series of private attacks and came after I was again accused of many of these same things.
My response was that if the mods (who are aware of this thread -- Yikes, at 700+ posts, I think everyone is) haven't banned me or pulled the thread, we might assume that they see my motivation to depose Specter and keep him off the SJC.
Here it is:
"You've been outted as a Hillary plant. There's no place for such trash on this site. Don't be suprised if you suffer the same fate as your thread - a thread with demonstrates some of the most disgusting displays of human disloyalty (on your part) one could ever imagine. You are a traiter to your family, your state, your country and this website if you really claim to be a conservative and yet act out in public as a shill for Hillary Clinton. I want nothing more to do with you Ray. You're the ultimate traitor and disappointment."
If this is (and I pray to God that it is not) typical of the thinking of the GOP, it's no wonder that we are known as the Stupid Party and famous for circular firing squads.
What we need now is innovative thinking and bold action to remove the rotten apples that are responsible for the rot in the rest of the barrel.
We need, now more than ever, a revitalized principled party to proudly and strongly say NO! to those who would dilute, compromise, negotiate, fritter away, or sell out our message of lower taxes, samller government, and more individual liberty -- the way our Founders intended.
When we do that, not only will we be able to regain the liberties lost over the past century, but grow our party with other like minded, freedom loving Americans who have abandoned the party and the system because no one stood up to prevent the party and the system from abandoning them.
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