Posted on 05/30/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Badray
Party over Principle?
That is the $64,000.00 question.
This past Friday morning, Arlen Specter was at a town hall meeting in Ross Township (suburb north of Pittsburgh PA). According to Specter staffer Justin Lokay, this was at the suggestion of Lou Nudi, the Ross Committee Chairman.
There were about 35 people in attendance including the Senator and 5 or 6 staffers and interns. Also there was Congresswoman Melissa Hart, State Senator John Pippy, former Hart staffer and 16th state house district candidate Pat Geho, former row office candidate Becky Toomey (oh, the irony, but she is still the prettiest, and my favorite Specter supporter), Lou Nudi, as well as some various other local committee people. Arriving late as usual was State Representative Jeff Habay. More on him later.
I arrived shortly before the meeting started and checked to see if I was on the PNG (persona non grata) list, but was welcomed in, much to my surprise because I have been barred from previous events. I sat and listened to how conservative values were important to Arlen, how much he enjoys being around G.W.Bush, and how we must defeat the Democrats.
This is a pretty stock speech when he tries to court Republicans. Sadly too many pubbies have short memories and actually believe Arlen when he speaks. He invoked the name of his recent challenger, Pat Toomey and says that he enjoys his support because the Dem candidate is so bad. Yada, yada, yada . . .
He then tried to ingratiate himself by mentioning the names of several people in the crowd. There names were conveniently written on the cue card in his hand. The whole thing was a sad charade, but that didn't stop many from sucking it up. I don't know if they were all die hard supporters or simply supporting the "R" against the horrible "D" that looms ahead if we don't support Arlen.
He then 'yielded' to Melissa Hart. She yucked it up with him for a moment (Think Sonny and Cher, except that Sonny was the conservative, not Cher.) before he stepped aside. About now, there should have been a commercial break, but they continued anyway. Melissa then spoke in glowing terms of Arlen and how important it was to put Arlen into office so that he could chair the Judiciary Committee and help get Bush's judicial nominees approved. She cited the brave defense of former PA Attorney General Mike Fisher when some Democrats posed some minor opposition to Mike's approval. Thank God, Arlen was there to save the day and he convinced the Dems not to block him. BTW, Fisher was supported in his quest for the bench by his recent opponent for the Governor's office - Democrat Governor Ed Rendell. Gee, that must have been a tough fight, Arlen.
What no Borking of Fisher? Don't worry, if Mike starts to make some sound judgements, you can bet that Arlen will apologize like he did after fighting for Clarence Thomas.
Melissa was about 3 minutes into her praise when I just couldn't take it any longer. There she was defending the man that has been pissing on us for years and she was calling it rain. I walked out. On the way out, I said to her brother that I just couldn't stand the BS.
I stayed outside for the remainder of the meeting. I missed the Q and A session, but was told that there was only one tough question asked and that Arlen spent about ten minutes addressing it. The question may have hit a nerve, but I doubt that he will do anything more than pay lip service to it.
Some good news. There was some who expressed continued opposition to him despite coming to be convinced that they should now be supporting him.
I did tell Melissa's aide that I was not alone in my displeasure with her support of Arlen. She may or may not care, but I am sure that I am quite right in my assessment. She is putting the party before any principle she ever espoused and this will cost her later.
Another person that I engaged was Rep. Habay. He arrived only after I had left the meeting and was outside for about 15 minutes. He approached me as he entered the building and I greeted him with a snide remark that he resembled a man that I used to know and told him that I was disappointed in his support for Arlen. He told me that Arlen helped him early in his 'career' (God, I hate that word when applied to politicians.) and that he was repaying the favor. (Doesn't the mob do favors now for favors in the future too?) I told him that that is what happens when you get into bed with the wrong people. He started getting testy at that point (I have to keep the BAD in badray, ya know) and retorted that he wasn't in bed with anyone, but that he would be glad to sit down and discuss the issue with me. I said OK, but he needed to dig himself out of a big hole. Walking away, he said that he was very comfortable in his position. I thanked him for telling me what I needed to know as he turned the corner (more than metaphorically?).
Just before Arlen came out, I spoke to County GOP Chairman Rich Stampahar and he tried to convince me that Specter was the man to support. His pleas fell on deaf ears, but they were overheard by an intern of Specter's who wimpily came over to tell me that this was a private event and asked me not to create a disturbance. I replied only that I was talking to people that knew me and approached me and wasn't talking to any one else. Can you imagine anyone thinking that I would cause a disturbance? LOL Not me, I'm too shy.
On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.
Maybe I'm just not a 'good republican'. Maybe I'm an 'unappeasable'. Maybe I am a purist. I've been called all of these things and more. And worse.
What I do know is that I cannot support this man. Not for party loyalty, not even for the Senate majority (we do not effectively have it now because of people like Specter). I also know that it is not out of bitterness or hatred. It's just principle. He doesn't believe the things that I believe. He doesn't value the things that I value. His vision of America is not my vision.
This November, a vote for Democrat Joe Hoeffel is a vote to put a true conservative, a true Republican in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm voting for Joe.
Ray Horvath
your attempts to belittle me are a miserable failure.
old enough to remember holding my sobbing girlfriend, after she had what would have been my first child sucked out of her.
abortion is murder and your support of Specter is your abortion if he assumes the chair of the SJC.
there are you happy now ?
your attempts to belittle me are a miserable failure.
old enough to remember holding my sobbing girlfriend, after she had what would have been my first child sucked out of her.
abortion is murder and your support of Specter is your abortion if he assumes the chair of the SJC.
there are you happy now ?
that was in 20+ years ago. I'll never forget it and I'll never forgive myself for it. if I am too crude for you, than stop posting to me.
Don't take this personally, but you're an "idiot," you're "dumb," and you're "stupid." It was pointed out that you're vile, as well.
LOL, thanks, I needed a laugh right then.
you support a pro-choice Republican and I am an "idiot" "dumb" "stupid" and "vile, as well"
go figure
As a pro-lifer I'm ashamed to have you fighting at my side.... not because of your history, but because of the way you think it gives you license to be an ass.
I'm a 43yr old white male, I have no ass.
i do apologise for offending you so often. Its just that no one seems to grasp the importance of protecting the SJCC right now! Specter is too liberal and pro-choice for the chairmanship. He will not allow "real"conservative judges on the bench and if the SC has a death or retirement I gaurantee you he will use the roe v wade litmus test and block ANY conservative appointment. that is the root of my vileness, so as a pro-lifer, you should revile Arlen Specter, not vote for him.
The above statement could be applied to your efforts as you campaign for leftist Arlen Specter.
off to work, be back soon
halfway to 500 bump...
another personal attact. Nice language for a "pro-lifer"
The above has governed my voting habits all my life however unaware I was until recently that Buckley said it. But there are exceptions to every rule. Not voting for Specter on this occasion is one of them.
Your level of anger about it is misplaced. Have you expressed such anger against Specter? He is the one who is truly deserving of your ire, NOT Badray.
Hooray for Badray and every other principled patriot! I wish you luck in ousting Spectre.
To everyone else in this thread except nonliberal, nodems, and zeugma; the principles we conservatives hold dear can be espoused by whomever, even a principled conservative dem. I know that sounds like an oxymoron but relatively speaking, some dems are simply more conservative than some republicans. Heck, in the South, dems are usually more conservative than any republican from the Northeast.
I know you will have to hold your nose to vote for a dem, but I have had to hold my nose to vote for some republicans. As nonliberal knows, we Iowans had a good chance at unseating Tom Harkin, but the "party faithful" Republicans blew it and nominated Ganske instead. I knew Ganske couldn't beat Harkin, and told many people before the general election.
Same thing has happened with other chances, such as Bob Dole, for one. Why do republicans keep shooting themselves in the foot? When there is a conservative vs. a "known" but liberal republican in the primary, the party drinks the koolaid rather than taking on the issues in a frontal assault.
As to whether we are better off with a "D" or an "R", let me tell you; my own congress-liberal, Tom Latham(R-IA4), has a worse voting record on the issues (conservative vs. liberal) than neighboring Leonard Boswell(D-IA3).
Do I want Latham to gain power, prestige, seniority, and possibly a senatorship? Heck no! I want him replaced! Senator Grassley, too, for that matter. And when Harkin's seat is up for grabs again, I will once again be supporting Bill Salier for Senate. Just too bad we have no republican primary to challenge Latham this time.
Hang tough, buddy. You're doing the right thing.
Sometimes it's hard to be a conservative first and a Republican second. Sometimes the pubbie cheerleaders can be as abrasive as their dem counterparts and just as shrill and unreasonable. I get the same reaction when I state my refusal to ever vote for a Bush again.
Every warning issued by Thomas Jefferson on political parties was true.
Every warning issued by Thomas Jefferson on political parties was true
Uh Stevie, I believe that you are referencing, a famous farewell speech by one of the Founders of the Constitution, about political parties.
It wasn't Jefferson(Libertarian "hero" who decided to attack isalmic terrorists(Brabary Pirates) contrary to modern Liberatarian opinion), it was Washington.
JMO, you are not a conservative, but a misguided malcontent hack for Hillary flying monkey, Hoeffel.
And it seems that you are beating yourself off on the prospect of Hoeffel(Hillary fly monkey) getting the Senatorial seat in PA.
Seems plausible with a screenname like yours, Designer.
Six years is a long time.
The loss of Senate control during a judicial picking period that will give us two to three new SCOTUS members in addition to numerous other high federal posts would be absolutely devastating!
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Yes, Specter cannot be relied on to vote conservatively, nor can several others. His seat is what is important, because the Senate schedule and committee membership is controlled by the party with a majority.
If the dems take the Senate back, the damage could be incalculable. Specter's line of reasoning is now changed a bit. I would assume his voting will reflect what happened in the primary. We can only hope that is the case, but we know the outcome of a democrat in that seat. That fact is certain and unarguable.
Better the devil we know in this case, but in the end it is a matter to be decided by those who are voting.
My 2 cents have been put in the pot on this issue, and I hope you do the right thing.
Thanks Bradray!!!!!!!
So please explain how Joe Hoeffel(Hillary follower) will be better to conservatives(per your reply #313).
You can't and thus silent about Hoeffel.
Your assumption that you know the history of this debate and the participants is misplaced.
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