Posted on 05/21/2004 3:46:15 PM PDT by Libloather
House OKs bill to let U.S. soldiers guard border
Sergio Bustos
Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON -- U.S. soldiers may be asked to keep undocumented immigrants and potential terrorists out of the country.
The House on Thursday passed a defense authorization bill, which includes a provision that would let U.S. troops join with U.S. Border Patrol agents in guarding the nation's borders with Canada and Mexico.
The bill authorizes Defense Department programs for the coming fiscal year, which will begin Oct. 1. The border troop amendment, championed by Rep. Virgil Goode, R-Va., passed the House late Wednesday by a 40-vote margin, 231-191.
The provision stands little chance of surviving beyond the House because it was not part of the Senate's version of the defense bill.
"If troops were needed, they could be of significant assistance to prevent the infiltration of terrorists, drug traffickers, and illegal aliens, and could prevent the entry of weapons of mass destruction into our country," Goode said.
Rep. Silvestre Reyes, D-El Paso, who spent 26 years with the U.S. Border Patrol and opposed the amendment, said it was "simply the wrong solution to our current problems along the border."
"This amendment will send our military personnel to our borders at a time when they are already stretched thin in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, Kosovo, Bosnia and over 100 other countries around the world," he said. "We cannot and we should not ask our military personnel to patrol our borders."
Southern Arizona lawmakers whose districts run along the U.S.-Mexico border echoed Reyes' argument.
"Border security is and continues to be a top priority for me and for the Congress as a whole," said Rep. Jim Kolbe, R-Tucson.
"But the Goode amendment would militarize our border and stretch the resources of our Army."
You need to do some reading about President Eisenhower (1953-1961).
He was the last President America had that had the foggiest idea about what border sovereingty is and what to do with illegal aliens.
Who told you that, Karl Rove?
I don't know how old you are but America did just fine without a sub class of non-citizens. Their presence has retarded mechanization in agriculture and corrupts what remains of our laws, values and culture. Your estimates of adjusted values are unrealistic and your evaluation of Americans willingness to work insults those who would do those jobs for a living wage. Until we stop being Mexico's welfare state that country will have no incentive to reform itself nor any hope of becoming a productive and viable economic power.
Source?
Does this mean we get to send the illegls to Gitmo ?
That question is too messy, we'll just close our eyes and pretend the border is secured.
Protect our own first.
Would the U.S. still "stretch the resources of our Army" if it stopped protecting the borders of other nations? Consider: Japan, Germany and South Korea all fall in the top 20 nations in economic wealth. In other words: these 3 nations can easily afford to protect themselves. Yet the U.S. has MORE THAN 100,000 U.S. citizens protecting the borders of just these 3 nations. If you need some additional perspective: the number of U.S. citizens (U.S. Border Patrol) protecting the borders of the United States is less the 40,000.
Am I the only one who finds it strange that the United States is the only nation of the planet that has more of its citizens protecting the borders of other nations?
Military border patrol? Be careful what you ask for. Do the math. One patrolman for each 500 yards divided by the total border areas of the U.S. You have the entire coasts of the Atlantic and Pacific,the Gulf of Mexico,Hawiian Islands and the entire coast of Alaska stretching 2500 miles out the Aleutian Islands. The Mexican border, the Canadian border with the lower 48 and the Canadian border with Alaska, both on the mainland and the panhandle which is made up of many islands. Unless and until the borders can be controlled electronically we will never have control. There are places up here you could post someone every 50 feet and I could get thru.
Arizona had Rangers at one time, too!
I'd rather see us expand our state agencies to handle the problem than to see the feds screw this up like they do everything else.
You can bet that enforcement of border sovereignty is still going to be nil with troops on our borders.
We've become too PC to protect ourselves.
...The Rule of Law...
Check this out.
Link to FAIR's data on immigrants and sky-rocketing medical cost
(snippet)
In some hospitals, as much as two-thirds of total operating costs are for uncompensated care for illegal aliens.
Our taxes are paying for this subsidized work force. Your paying one way or another.
If we could get our Senators to remember what State they represent that would be a solution in itself.
Too many of them bow to the UN Charter instead of our Constitution!
Repealing the 17th would go a long way in that direction.
God forbid that they catch anyone; the New York Times would bave a conniption and the Post would have a hissy fit if soldiers detained anyone anywhere for any reason anytime or anyhow. Of course, in the end the majority neither read nor are interested in either of these newspapers. The best way to resist the incessent efforts of the liberal press is to outvote their sorts of people, which we are increasingly able to do.
Reyes has been a thorn in the butt of Texans for a long time!
passed the House late Wednesday by a 40-vote margin, 231-191.
Anyone have a link to the breakdown of the vote?
bump to the top
They'd probably all resign if we did that. I like the idea!
Questions?
here ya go.... Close the borders. This country will never can never be secure until that is done.
Correct. And it has been proven to not be difficult. Allow me to reiterate from a previous post ....
Let us visualize a real live controlled border. That would require a fairly large construction project to build semi-sunken border stations at one mile intervals from end to end across the southern border with Mexico. By placing them at one mile intervals no point on the border is more than 30 seconds from a border station. By sinking them into the ground, one level is completely protected against almost all man-portable weapons and the second level (ground level) can be bermed on three sides except for the horizontal observation and firing ports along the east, south and west sides. the north side would extend out to include a 3 sided, covered bay where the interceptors will sit at the ready.
Each such station will be staffed by five three man teams. As this is a closed border plan, there is no need for more than three per station. Allowing 5 shifts per station, the three normally needed for 24 hour staffing at 8 hour shifts, plus two ?weekend? shifts that could rotate out with a weekday shift, giving the week day workers opportunity for time off, vacation, backup for sick days, etc.
Then there is the eternal question, how much?
Ahhhhhhhh, there is the beauty. ZERO. This will not add a single dime to the budget. WHY? The money is currently being pi$$ed away for nothing and where it is going will only get worse. Allow me to rub salt here . .
""When approving the Medi care bill last month, Congress allocated $1 billion to help border hospitals cover those costs. President Bush is expected to sign the bill Monday.""
Which he did. So the money is there, it is just being spent in a reactionary mode. In a proactive mode most of the money will only be spent only in the first year, after that the cost would drop dramatically.
OK, lets do the numbers.
1990 miles from Atlantic to Pacific ='s 1990 stations.
1 station initial construction 165,000
1 electronics and weapons 40,000
3 trucks @ 40,000 each 120,000
15 staff, 5 shifts at 3 per shift 630,000
utilities (water, electricity) 12,000
Total for one station for the first year (including construction)
$967,000
Total for the 1990 stations required
$1,837,300,000
and that is including construction cost.
After the initial construction,
Back out 90% of 165,000 to = 16,500, or annual maintaining
apply the same 10% maintaining to the other front end expenses
and the total annual bill is . . . $1,653,668,800
Case Closed.
The only reason the border is NOT closed is the fed WANTS the criminal invaders here.
the only question is . . . WHY?
Many will argue that they are just poor "immigrants" and we should welcome them. We already welcome immigrants, NOT illegal border busters. If they are "immigrating" why are they crossing the border at night, paying other criminals thousands of dollars each to smuggle them into the u.S.
SMUGGLING IS NOT IMMIGRATING.
And as for this BS about them only committing a mistomeanor by crossing the border illegally, there is another school of thought. Lets take a look at that, shall we?
Just a thought, what if the IRS began to receive reports regarding the transfer of funds to locations outside of the united States and it became apparent that is is a nationwide trend.... therefore invoking conspiracy laws.
Say for example, an individual living in the united States ILLEGALLY had conspired with other individuals living in the united States ILLEGALLY to create a hideout from the investigative branch of INS or whatever the heck they are called these days. They have rented the hideout under a fake name and all of the conspirators chipped in to pay the rent on the hideout. Then, in order to avoid local law enforcement agents, all of the ILLEGAL Aliens live in the hideout, thereby circumventing the reporting regulations for an alien ILLEGALLY living in the u.S. That would be a crime, right?
OK, let's say those same aliens living ILLEGALLY in the u.S. all had jobs and because they are paying very little to support themselves, (they are all living in the hideout, thereby paying 1/5 to 1/10 what the average American pays in rent and lest than 1/20 what the average home owner pays in monthly mortgage payments) they are sending regular sums of money out of the county, money that was earned during the course of ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, i.e. not reporting there illegal status, hiding their address from law authorities, and falsifying federal IRS forms with fake SS numbers. This would all constitute crimes, right? Well, what kind of a crime?
STRUCTURING, IE money laundering......
4.18.1956(a)(1)(B)(ii) Money Laundering-Illegal Structuring,
18 U.S.C. § 1956(a)(1)(B)(ii) See Statute
[Defendant] is charged with violating that portion of the federal money laundering statute that prohibits structuring transactions to avoid reporting requirements. It is against federal law to engage in such conduct. For [defendant] to be convicted of this crime, you must be convinced that the government has proven each of the following things beyond a reasonable doubt:
First, that [defendant] entered into a financial transaction or transactions, on or about the date alleged, with a financial institution engaged in interstate commerce, involving the use of proceeds of unlawful activities, specifically, proceeds of the [insert crime here(illegal alien) ];
Second, that [defendant] knew that these were the proceeds of unlawful activity;
Third, that [defendant] knew that the transaction or transactions were structured or designed in whole or in part so as to avoid transaction reporting requirements under federal law. ------- The defendants are also charged with knowingly conducting and attempting to conduct financial transactions that involved the proceeds of specified unlawful activity, knowing that the transactions were designed in whole or in part to avoid a transaction reporting requirement and while conducting and attempting to conduct such financial transactions, knowing that the property involved in the financial transactions represented the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1956(a)(1)(B)(ii).
The Treasury Department has published a booklet entitled, "Money Laundering: A Banker's Guide to Avoiding Problems," which contains a list of suspicious activities that the Treasury Department says fit the profile of a "money launderer." These activities include: 1) Paying off a delinquent loan all at once; 2) Changing currency from small to large denominations;3) Buying cashier's checks, money orders, or traveler's checks for less than the reporting limit (i.e., under $10,000); 4) Acting nervous while making large transactions with cash or monetary instruments; 5) Opening an account and using it as collateral for a loan; 6) Presenting a transaction that involves a large number of $50 and $100 bills; and 7) Presenting a transaction without counting the cash first. . . .
"Structuring" is defined by the IRS as any effort to avoid reporting cash or other monetary transactions over $10,000 by breaking them down into smaller "related" transactions over any 12-month period (defined by USC 31, Sec. 5322-5324-Money Laundering Control Act of 1986, as amended). A structuring violation carries with it a criminal penalty with a mandatory prison term, heavy fines, and confiscation of structured funds and money "connected" to them. (A civil penalty of a $25,000 fine with confiscation of structured funds also exists.) Monetary instruments included in structuring are cash, cashier's checks, money orders, and traveler's checks.
"Structuring" is now defined as money laundering, and is a criminal offense. You can now go to jail for dealing in cash to protect your financial privacy, if the IRS thinks you're trying to hide or structure your transactions or monetary instruments.
It seems to me that that the above is describing a nationwide conspiracy of ILLEGAL ALIENS that are defrauding the government and a guilty of a long list of federal conspiracy crimes.
It also occurred to me that the crime was committed, or rather, under the definition of conspiracy, the crime began when the illegal alien set foot on u.S. territory with the intention of getting a job "that nobody else wanted."
Well well, let us review the facts.
1. All the illegals KNOW what they are doing is against u.S. law.
2. The border an be closed for .10 cents on the dollar of what it costs PER YEAR, that would be 22 Billion, due to their presence. It would cost less than 2 Billion to close it.
They are in fact criminals and were felons by their own admission the moment they set foot on u.S. territory. What is government is thinking? By allowing this to go on in the face of such universal opposition of the wishes of the Americans will be political genocide if just one of the annual two million criminal border crossers are involved in a major terrorist event. That is not pubies or dems, just politicians and gubbermnt in general.
NO reason to not close the border.
MANY reasons to close the border NOW.
Does this current government really believe all Americans are so stupid as to let this go on?
Perhaps we will all go back to our AC and Buds if they put a few troops on the border to let the media snap a few thousand pics?
Perhaps the fed.gov should bash itself in the head with a brick, too.
The only thing that would make Silvestre happy would be to open the borders completely. He should be booted out by Texas voters.
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