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To: Mudboy Slim; Landru; joanie-f; sultan88; BraveMan; jla; MeekOneGOP; Happy2BMe; backhoe; p8triot; ...
As most of you may know, I've been on my high horse lately about Islam, and the "prophet" Muhammed.
I apologize to any and all, who may have gotten offended by my preachiness! After this post, I'm going to take a break from posting, and I promise not to bother anyone with all this Islamo-phobia, that I've been projecting! :) ;^D

I think we need to help as many people as possible understand the true nature of Islam, if we are to ever win this war on terror.

I found a very interesting book "The Quest for the Historical Muhammad" edited by Ibn Warraq, author of "Why I Am Not a Muslim"

Here is Warraq's quote about Muslims:
"Muslims do not need patronizing liberals to meet them halfway; Muslims need to write an honest biography of the prophet that does not shun the truth, least of all cover it up with the dishonest subterfuge of condescending Wetern Scholars" -Ibn Warraq, Author of "Studies on Muhammed", and the "Rise of Islam".

From www.danielpipes.org |
Original article available at:
www.danielpipes.org/article/853

"The Quest for the Historical Muhammad"
Edited by Ibn Warraq
Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 2000. 554 pp. $34.95

Middle East Quarterly

September 2000
Reviewed by Daniel Pipes

" Look up the Prophet Muhammad in any reference book and the outlines of his life are confidently on display: birth in C.E. 570 in Mecca, career as a successful merchant, first revelation in 610, flight to Medina in 622, triumphant return to Mecca in 630, death in 632. There are, however, two major problems with this standard biography, as explained in this fascinating collection of essays. First, the massive documentation about Muhammad derives in every instance from Arabic written sources - biographies, collections of the prophet's sayings and doings, and so on - the earliest of which date from a century and a half after his death. Second, the earlier sources on the prophet's life that do survive dramatically contradict the standard biography. In part, these are literary sources in languages other than Arabic (such as Armenian, Greek, or Syriac); in part, they are material remains (such as papyri, inscriptions, and coins).

Although the unreliability of the Arabic literary sources has been understood for a century, only recently have scholars begun to explore its full implications. They look skeptically at the Arabic written sources and conclude that these are a form of "salvation history" - self-serving, unreliable accounts by the faithful. The huge body of detail, revisionist scholars find, is almost completely spurious. For example, an inscription and a Greek account leads Lawrence Conrad to fix Muhammad's birth in 552, not 570. Patricia Crone conclude that Muhammad's career took place not in Mecca but hundreds of kilometers to the north. Yehuda Nevo and Judith Koren find that the classical Arabic language was developed not in today's Saudi Arabia but in the Levant, and that it reached Arabia only through the colonizing efforts of one of the early caliphs.

Startling conclusions follow from this. The Arab tribesmen who conquered great swathes of territory in the seventh century were not Muslims, according to Judith Koren and Yehuda Neva; perhaps they were pagans. The Qur'an is a not "a product of Muhammad or even of Arabia," John Wansbrough suggests, but a collection of earlier Judeo-Christian liturgical materials stitched together to meet the needs of a later age. Most broadly, Ibn al-Rawandi concludes, "there was no Islam as we know it" until two or three hundred years after the traditional version has it (more like C.E. 830 than 630); it developed not in the distant deserts of Arabia but through the interaction of Arab conquerors and their more civilized subject peoples. Patricia Crone and Michael Cook go yet further, doubting even the existence of Muhammad.

Though undertaken in a purely scholarly quest, the research made available in Quest for the Historical Muhammad raises basic questions for Muslims concerning the prophet's role as a moral paragon; the sources of Islamic law; and the God-given nature of the Qur'an.

From www.danielpipes.org | Original article available at: www.danielpipes.org/article/853

Have a great summer, everyone.
Catch you in the fall.
Regards,
FBD

388 posted on 06/04/2004 11:48:26 AM PDT by FBD (...Please press 2 for English...for Espanol, please stay on the line...)
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To: FBD

Stay well freeper friend and don't stay away until fall!


389 posted on 06/04/2004 11:50:17 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: FBD
"Startling conclusions follow from this. The Arab tribesmen who conquered great swathes of territory in the seventh century were not Muslims, according to Judith Koren and Yehuda Neva; perhaps they were pagans. The Qur'an is a not "a product of Muhammad or even of Arabia," John Wansbrough suggests, but a collection of earlier Judeo-Christian liturgical materials stitched together to meet the needs of a later age. Most broadly, Ibn al-Rawandi concludes, "there was no Islam as we know it" until two or three hundred years after the traditional version has it (more like C.E. 830 than 630); it developed not in the distant deserts of Arabia but through the interaction of Arab conquerors and their more civilized subject peoples. Patricia Crone and Michael Cook go yet further, doubting even the existence of Muhammad."

Absolutely politically-incorrect, but quite interesting nonetheless, my FRiend. Perhaps I'll add one of yer recommended reading books to my "To Do" list fer this summer.

If I don't see you before the Fall, have a great Summer...still, I hope you'll pop in and visit whenever you get the chance.

Utmost FReegards...MUD

390 posted on 06/04/2004 11:58:11 AM PDT by Mudboy Slim (RE-IMPEACH Osama bil Clinton!!)
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To: FBD

Get back in here and get to work!


391 posted on 06/04/2004 1:01:19 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (U.S.A. - - United We Stand - - Divided We Fall - - Support Our Troops - - Vote BUSH)
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To: FBD

Man, I miss FBD already. Maybe Sam can take his place while he is on hiatus. Remember FBD used to be called "Formerly Brainwashed Democrat". Perhaps Sam will be an FBD one day!!


395 posted on 06/04/2004 2:32:58 PM PDT by sultan88 ("I went down Virginia, seeking shelter from the storm...")
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To: FBD
Oh, man !

After this post, I'm going to take a break from posting, and I promise not to
bother anyone with all this Islamo-phobia, that I've been projecting! :) ;^D

Now, whatcha wanna go and do dat for ??


396 posted on 06/04/2004 4:38:20 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is ONLY ONE good Democrat: one that has just been voted OUT of POWER ! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: FBD

God speed, FBD . . .


403 posted on 06/04/2004 8:31:22 PM PDT by BraveMan
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