Posted on 05/16/2004 12:59:53 PM PDT by jmstein7
There is now a debate raging on FR about trolls, honest dissent, and the value of free speech. I would like to weigh in on this and then solicit opinions from all of you on the subject.
The First Amendment was a response to the English experience of viewpoint suppression by requiring licensing of the press – i.e. requiring pre-approval of books – the doctrine of construction treason, which held that writing can constitute treason, a capital offense, and the law of seditious libel, criminalizing unfavorable reporting of the government. However, the debate in the United States did not truly reach maturity until the early half of the 20th Century.
Justice Holmes (in, I believe, Abrams v. United States) famously averred that “[t]he best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market.” Even opinions which we “loathe and believe to be fraught with death” should not be suppressed, “unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.”
Alternatively, the self governance rationale posits that, because the general welfare depends on the citizens making enlightened decisions, in a democratic society, free expression and discussion are essential to deciding matters of public policy. The autonomy rationale holds that for an individual to regard himself as autonomous, he must see himself as free to decide which beliefs to hold. The First Amendment is also justified on the basis that it checks the abuse of power by public officials, it diffuses dissent by creating an atmosphere of open discussion, and it fosters a tolerant society.
I am inclined to agree with Justice Holmes – and that is why I support, as I think most FReepers do – honest dissent. Although such expression of opinion may make us angry, as the Court insinuated in Terminiello v. Chicago, the most valuable expression may well be that which because it is provocative and challenging, produces these emotions. This type of debate aids us in our perpetual search for the truth.
There is no such thing as a false idea. However pernicious an opinion may seem, we depend for its correction not on the conscience of judges and juries, but on the competition of other ideas. However, what we are concerned with is false statement of fact – this type of speech, particularly speech that is intended to be deceptive, adds nothing to public debate. False statements of fact, e.g. intentionally deceptive or libelous utterances, are not within the area of constitutionally protected speech. Deceptive or defamatory speech is “low value speech,” and it adds nothing constructive to the marketplace of ideas. This is why trolls are prohibited – because they add nothing to the debate and exist only to deceive and distort the truth we are seeking.
In a nutshell, we at FR do not support viewpoint discrimination. However, what we do ask for, at a minimum, is open and honest debate as we, together search for the truth. That is, per se, the value of free speech in a Free Republic.
I have three young ones. Please, don't talk about checkout lines...:-)
trolls should be removed when the can't follow FR's rules. being trolls they are incapable of following the simple rules at FR.
Condolences in the checkout line!.
I know I can count on you for a personal reference.
She also didn't say anything about IT; her degree is education technology. Why is everyone arguing about IT jobs being outsourced and referencing her post?
Stephen Hawking? Don't compare bad spelling to the medical condition of Stephen Hawking. If there was something he could work at to cure him so that he might speak, or get up and walk, he would do it.
But nothing stops poor spellers from looking up how to spell 'deceit,' or from clicking on the spellchecker button.
Maybe that's why employers value it: it can be an important measure of the value one places on self-improvement.
Where I guess I would differ with you is on the ground that politics is ultimately just nasty. It is what we make of it. If we make it nasty here it will be nasty here. We set the standard in our own backyard. The reason people get by with it now is the same reason they've always gotten by with it - because it is allowed to go on. Many here would scream like stuck pigs if the press Lied about Bush. Then they turn right around and do it to fellow republicans. I guess I just don't see any excuses for maltreatment or hypocrisy. I'm not perfect; but, at least I try. If we define restraint as not shooting one another, although it does sound humorous, it's not much of a commentary on who we are.
Because Havoc has projected his predicament on her post. He honestly believes she mentioned outsourcing because that is relevant to his problems.
Ohhhh.... I understand.
Am I understanding you right? Lycaon was all those other names too?
And that's just a partial list.
Does that mean that things like support by conservatives for nation building is a given truth and those who deviate from the acceptance of that shouldn't talk about that subject?
I believe this is a technical term reserved for the US Rangers. I have but one source to draw upon, however.
one question: you don't support all this zotting and trollcalling and such do you?
LOL
Why was FA14 banned?
Any thoughts?
Yeah. Who are "we"?
You do not speak for me, even though you are right.
I guess I missed the memo where you were appointed to set policy at FR.
Retread.
Surprisingly, most of the rest of us regular visitors, familiar with Occam's Razor and plain common sense were able to instantly sense the obvious alternative that continues to elude you.
Bottom line, feel free to conclude whatever you like, and have the courtesy to allow others the same freedom, without preaching to them.
Do you live alone? Do your kids ever visit? Ever wonder why not?
In the eye of the beholder, huh? :>)
Ultimately, it's a mod's call. ASA Vet is not one....I know he's been around a long time. (Cause the ASA ceased in the late 70's/early 80's...right?
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