Posted on 05/16/2004 12:59:53 PM PDT by jmstein7
There is now a debate raging on FR about trolls, honest dissent, and the value of free speech. I would like to weigh in on this and then solicit opinions from all of you on the subject.
The First Amendment was a response to the English experience of viewpoint suppression by requiring licensing of the press – i.e. requiring pre-approval of books – the doctrine of construction treason, which held that writing can constitute treason, a capital offense, and the law of seditious libel, criminalizing unfavorable reporting of the government. However, the debate in the United States did not truly reach maturity until the early half of the 20th Century.
Justice Holmes (in, I believe, Abrams v. United States) famously averred that “[t]he best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market.” Even opinions which we “loathe and believe to be fraught with death” should not be suppressed, “unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.”
Alternatively, the self governance rationale posits that, because the general welfare depends on the citizens making enlightened decisions, in a democratic society, free expression and discussion are essential to deciding matters of public policy. The autonomy rationale holds that for an individual to regard himself as autonomous, he must see himself as free to decide which beliefs to hold. The First Amendment is also justified on the basis that it checks the abuse of power by public officials, it diffuses dissent by creating an atmosphere of open discussion, and it fosters a tolerant society.
I am inclined to agree with Justice Holmes – and that is why I support, as I think most FReepers do – honest dissent. Although such expression of opinion may make us angry, as the Court insinuated in Terminiello v. Chicago, the most valuable expression may well be that which because it is provocative and challenging, produces these emotions. This type of debate aids us in our perpetual search for the truth.
There is no such thing as a false idea. However pernicious an opinion may seem, we depend for its correction not on the conscience of judges and juries, but on the competition of other ideas. However, what we are concerned with is false statement of fact – this type of speech, particularly speech that is intended to be deceptive, adds nothing to public debate. False statements of fact, e.g. intentionally deceptive or libelous utterances, are not within the area of constitutionally protected speech. Deceptive or defamatory speech is “low value speech,” and it adds nothing constructive to the marketplace of ideas. This is why trolls are prohibited – because they add nothing to the debate and exist only to deceive and distort the truth we are seeking.
In a nutshell, we at FR do not support viewpoint discrimination. However, what we do ask for, at a minimum, is open and honest debate as we, together search for the truth. That is, per se, the value of free speech in a Free Republic.
FR is the only safe harbor in a sea of Liberal traitors.
WE are the victims here! :)
Besides zotting is a good stress reliever.
Reasoned argument is always acceptable unless there is a
knife at your throat.
100% on the money!
As Jim says in his statement on the Home Page. This is a "private" site for conservative discussion.
The dems hate it because they want to be allowed to come here and bash us. They don't want to discuss .. they want to tear down and intimidate and name call. I've had some really great discussions .. I've also had some disgusting discourse with name callers.
That's a damnable smear...something a real wife beater would post.
Of course, am I calling anyone a wife beater, HELL NO.
You can also get into trouble when you support the Bush ME policy; trust me, I know. Doesn't matter if your a Bush team leader, veteran or not. The one issue folks rule here. Which is a shame, because FR rules, and Jim (rightfully) rules FR.
Gee...;)
This bears repeating...
posted the following statement to our front page in response to the criticism I'm receiving lately as to not being fair and balanced and perceived mistreatment of trolls and assorted malcontents. Got news for all, I'm NOT fair and balanced. I'm biased toward God, country, family, liberty and freedom and against liberalism, socialism, anarchism, wackoism, global balonyism and any other form of tyranny. Hope this helps.
Statement by the founder of Free Republic:
In our continuing fight for freedom, for America and our constitution and against totalitarianism, socialism, tyranny, terrorism, etc., Free Republic stands firmly on the side of right, i.e., the conservative side. Believing that the best defense is a strong offense, we (myself and those whom I'm trying to attract to FR) support the strategy of taking the fight to the enemy as opposed to allowing the enemy the luxury of conducting their attacks on us at home on their terms and on their schedule.
Therefore, we wholeheartedly support the Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive strikes on known terrorist states and organizations that are believed to present a clear threat to our freedom or national security. We support our military, our troops and our Commander-in-Chief and we oppose turning control of our government back over to the liberals and socialists who favor appeasement, weakness, and subserviency. We do not believe in surrendering to the terrorists as France, Germany, Russia and Spain have done and as Kerry, Kennedy, Clinton and the Democrats, et al, are proposing.
As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America. We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc. We also oppose the United Nations or any other world government body that may attempt to impose its will or rule over our sovereign nation and sovereign people. We believe in defending our borders, our constitution and our national sovereignty.
Free Republic is private property. It is not a government project, nor is it funded by government or taxpayer money. We are not a publicly owned entity nor are we an IRS tax-free non-profit organization. We pay all applicable taxes on our income. We are not connected to or funded by any political party, news agency, or any other entity. We sell no merchandise, product or service, and we offer no subscriptions or paid memberships. We accept no paid advertising or promotions. We are funded solely by donations (non tax deductible gifts) from our readers and participants.
We aggressively defend our God-given and first amendment guaranteed rights to free speech, free press, free religion, and freedom of association, as well as our constitutional right to control the use and content of our own personal private property. Despite the wailing of the liberal trolls and other doom & gloom naysayers, we feel no compelling need to allow them a platform to promote their repugnant and obnoxious propaganda from our forum. Free Republic is not a liberal debating society. We are conservative activists dedicated to defending our rights, defending our constitution, defending our republic and defending our traditional American way of life.
Our God-given liberty and freedoms are not negotiable.
May God bless and protect our men and women in uniform fighting for our freedom and may God continue to bless America.
Jim Robinson
Any thoughts?
Take your prozac and be mindlessly obedient?
Why didn't I think of that?
Well, my opinons in Indymedia don't even last a day or so. The adminstrators erase them. It's a blast when you get to read some of the answers I receive. And they, the Indymidiots, advertise themselves as peaceniks!
Another example: John Stuart Mill's writings on liberty are loved by libertarians and liberals. But they are flawed. If anyone is interested, I will elaborate.
It does not take a rocket scientist or a detective to see that the woman was not who she appeared to be.
First timer vanity.
Trace backs of other web articles. A topic that is divisive.
And yes, poor grammar and spelling is very common with trolls.
She came here for one purpose and one purpose only and that was to salt the mine and then run back to DU and tell her friends how she bombed FR with a improvised rhetorical device and creamed several nasty conservatives.
I don't care how long you have been here, but I do care that you chose to unwittingly defend this woman.
You have certainly been here long enough to know and to understand how subversives work and what their goals are.
Reality bites! Grow up!(go to DU and hang around for while. You will see them come back from their missions to FR and tell their war stories)
BTW, this forum is not a democracy where you can claim victim hood and constitutional rights!
It is a private enterprise where the rules and membership are controlled by the owner of the board.
Don't like-em..................leave-em!
What value is there in a whiny post asking us to spam the White House with resumes'??
Get a grip.
My dear,when you send your resume to the President and come whining to people who have lived life,had experiences who have lost jobs, may still be looking, been through deep recessions, used up all their savings, maxed the credit cards cause you have kids in college, finally found work in another state ,moved children, given up the family home...it doesn't fly..
It sounds like a person who thinks life isn't fair to her but it should be if only the President would fix it for her. Ridiculous! Immature and not at all conservative!
I'm not lying about the thread. I posted the bleatin thing so people could reference it. I don't see any espoused belief in communism etc. What I do see is what you yourself are continuing to do here - slandering the person with not one lick of evidence presented to back up your slander. I offered a perfectly tame alternative based on what she did say. But you know what is lacking - anyone actually asking her what she meant to clarify it. My whole point in a nutshell. She wasn't given a hearing - she was descended upon in effort to shut her up. And you sit there slandering her still with no basis in fact upon which to build.
As far as my motive. I think I made my motive plain obvious.. It's to get you people to treat others with respect and common freakin courtesy. When I came here 6 years ago, I found myself in the midst of a religious war here wherein the self same issue was at hand. Certain people were allowed to get by with saying whatever they darned pleased whether it was true, false, right or wrong. But the moment you offered the slightest resistance or disagreement, you could be banned at their whining. I was involved in the fight that saw that change. And for lack of wanting to turn this thread into a religious debate, I'll suspend from naming the religious group. But Mr. Robinson knows of my involvement in that struggle himself. And because of a great deal of patience and a willingness to understand, things changed and the playing field is pretty much level. My motive is nothing more than mutual respect and fair play. The subject involved is irrelevant.
Certain people here don't let facts or the lack of them get in the way of destroying someone who presents a viewpoint that threaten's their profit margin or their cultist mentality. They find the most convenient use of verbage to attack with whether true or not and they aim to slaughter. That isn't discussion, debate or mutual respect. That is what Ross Perot termed the Republican attack machine in all it's foulness.. something as I've said before, I couldn't believe possible from republicans. Having seen it first hand of late, I'm sickened to my core by it and sick to death of it. And for my part, I intend to do what I can to put a stop to it. I don't find that the best way to defeat liberal democrats is to act like the worst of them. Just as I don't believe the best way to defeat vile terrorists and show how better people can have it is to broadcast the evil of a few who thought it appropriate to treat them the same way Saddam treated his people. It's disgusting and it's without excuse.
You mean like the Taguba Report on prisoner abuse? The text of the report was posted, but the Mods pulled it. Maybe it's been "reinstated", I dunno'.
(Love your screen-name.)
Some people can be insensitive to a person's plight.
The moderators have admonished new posters before about posting inflammatory controversial vanities. Anyone who has been in a free trade knows how those can get.
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